From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #151 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/151 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 151 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Orbit Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Re: [B7L] New crew (was Terminal (was Sarcophagus)) Re: [B7L] Orbit [B7L] I have to confess... Re: [B7L] Orbit Re: [B7L] Orbit Re: [B7L] War Wounds Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Re: [B7L] Orbit [B7L] Blake's Back Re: [B7L] War Wounds Re: [B7L] Re: reviews/ages/SCHOOL & stuff Re: [B7L] City at the Edge of the World Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Re: [B7L] War Wounds Re: [B7L] Orbit Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) [B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Re: [B7L] War Wounds Re: [B7L] Orbit Re: [B7L] Orbit [B7L] Gareth in Dr Who ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:38:10 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <393604D0.EA97B46E@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just for the sake of playing the game, you understand, I shall attempt to plug a few plotholes... Me/Ellynne: > > Ah, but it takes a certain amount of fuel to land safely, as well. > > Perhaps they were past that point by the time they realised > > they couldn't lose enough weight. > > > They nearly had enough to reach escape velocity. 75 kilograms on a ship > that size - had to be at least a couple tons at that size, even if they > used light weight future materials instead of herculanium (which seems to > have been common in ships, given Dawn of the Gods, although Liberator > obviously had an unusual percentage in the hull) - is next too nothing Sure. But based on Egrorian's computer projection, they were nearly at the edge of the atmosphere by then. The amount of thrust required to push them into orbit _from that point_ could have been negligible compared to the amount of fuel needed to fight the acceleration that gravity would cause in trying to land. > (actually, just to point out minor plot flaws, the amount of weight they > need to eject would have been increasing as the shuttle flew. Every > second they fly is more fuel burned up, leaving less to achieve orbit > with. By the time Avon found Vila, throwing him off might not have made > a difference. True. But a specific weight was never quoted before the 70 kilos, so the increasing amount before that can be ignored. Orac is surely smart enough to calculate in a time factor for losing the weight. > Given the time and distance suggested, I think they had enough to land. > But I could be wrong. It also might make a difference what kind of > gliding ability the shuttle had.... But Avon never even asked Orac about > this option. If you're talking about gliding in from the edge of the atmosphere and saving the fuel for landing, even assuming the shuttle's fuel system will allow for that, I simply don't think Avon's a good enough pilot. I know someone who glided a bomber home across the Channel from Germany during WWII; it was considered a remarkable feat, and he was an expert. Gliding takes skill, experience, and luck--plus in that kind of descent you'd have to compensate for the acceleration. I might accept Tarrant has that kind of skill and experience--not Avon. Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:16:58 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Message-ID: <39361BF9.690A5A8A@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellynne/Sally: > Grant thing.> > > Yes, the problem with the Big Romance of the Series is that we only see them > together in one scene in one episode, and while there is lots of angst, > there's not much chemistry between the two actors (IMHO). Even if I don't > see the Avon-Cally romantic thing (friends, yes. Anything more, sorry), they > do have a far more *real* connection that we've watched on screen, and he > does care about her, a lot. Yes, there's some angst potential in the A/C scenario Ellynne has painted, but not IMO more than with Avon/Anna, and here's why: Avon's big fear is betrayal (and perhaps secondarily, loss). Trusting the wrong person. It's *not* having failed to trust someone that might have lived up to his trust. With Anna, you have the ultimate betrayal, the greatest possible manifestation of his fear; with Cally you would have failure to trust, but that's the price one pays for Avon's brand of self-protection--a regret only, not on the level of pain caused by opening up to someone and then being stabbed in the heart. > Notwithstanding that I do think he is - in some ways - closer to and more > comfortable with Vila - I have to say Cally is the *only* other one of the > entire Liberator/Scorpio crews I can even imagine him going to Terminal for > (and I'm still dubious, but with Cally there is that maybe). I really don't think he'd choose certain death for anyone but Blake and Anna, but he'd certainly take considerable risks for Cally; the thing that *might* tip the odds in her favour is that he'd know that she'd go to Terminal for him. Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:48:34 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] New crew (was Terminal (was Sarcophagus)) Message-ID: <39361551.67B90738@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: > Jessica (hello to the list Jessica) said > >>there is often a definite divide between new crew and old crew, episodes > like Volcano and Ultraworld where Dayna and Tarrant work on one thing and > Avon, Vila and/or Cally do another.<< > Completely agree with you about that. I know there are a couple of us who > see it as rather a generational thing. Vila and Avon and Cally are just > older and more battered by life than Dayna and Tarrant. I think the cast on > both sides of this divide do an excellent job of portraying this. Generational is a good word for it. In Volcano, I do think there is an undertone of Avon seeing if Tarrant and Dayna are going to earn their keep, but after that, yes, generational. Though Dayna and Tarrant have vastly different styles. Tarrant does seem to be trying so hard to fit in, to make himself a place, to demonstrate his superior qualities--of course I really don't think he gets there until Terminal, though he has nice moments here and there--while Dayna really doesn't try at all, and fits in without difficulty. It's one of the things I like about Dayna, this complete confidence that she belongs on Liberator. No worries about Avon saying, 'where shall we drop you off?', no tentative behaviour, no phony niceness. She really *listens* to Avon and the others, and then makes up her own mind, makes suggestions without issuing challenges (right from the beginning--I assume Obsidian was her idea), and though she behaves as if Avon is the leader, has no difficulty disagreeing with him--and manages to do so, for the most part, without making him angry. I suppose partly it's her straightforward nature, partly because Avon invited her along, and partly because she has no agenda apart from having vengeance on Servalan. Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <39360BC8.FE76FDF9@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More lovely plotholes to play with... Nina wrote: > If they hadn't wasted so much time and fuel, they should have > been able to get the shuttle down safely. IMHO, that's a rule that > *especially* the most inexperienced pilots should stick to. I could > understand Jenna or Tarrant trying to tough it out, but not Avon - he knows > his limitations as a pilot. This is a bit backwards, isn't it? Along with takeoff, landing is the most difficult and dangerous part of flying; and we haven't ever seen Avon take off or land without a flight computer (Zen/Slave). Jenna or Tarrant might be able to land, but Avon might rightly feel he had a better chance trying to achieve orbit, particularly if you consider what was waiting on the surface--Egrorian, Servalan, and inhospitable conditions (one crack in the hull and they're dead from the atmosphere.) Case in point--in Games, Tarrant chooses to orbit the simulator rather than trying to land it with damage. > It also has always bugged me that Avon (and Orac, too) seem to completely > ignore the process of logical deduction in identifying the problem! They had > already made a safe trip to Scorpio and back to the planet in the *same* > shuttle, so obviously something had been added while they were on the ground. Not so obvious. Orac didn't say the shuttle was overweight, just that the flight configuration made orbit unattainable. Their first try at fixing things was to switch the shuttle to manual--looks like Avon thought the shuttle had been programmed to crash. Another possibility would be that the shuttle hadn't been fully fueled. Even when they start stripping the shuttle, Avon is talking about a lack of engine power, not additional weight. Since their flight path would be a combination of thrust, weight, and angle, there's no immediate reason to assume the problem is weight, as opposed to one of the other two. Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:19:40 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org Subject: [B7L] I have to confess... Message-ID: <4e.6499a87.2667a0cc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...this was what we were doing on Memorial Day Weekend, instead of MediaWest*Con. Can't say which I would have enjoyed more. It would have been an awefully close contest. Images of Legacy 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:15:36 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <00a901bfcbcb$8cd174c0$a7249ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrote : > If you're talking about gliding in from the edge of the atmosphere and > saving the fuel for landing, even assuming the shuttle's fuel system > will allow for that, I simply don't think Avon's a good enough pilot. > I know someone who glided a bomber home across the Channel from > Germany during WWII; it was considered a remarkable feat, and he > was an expert. Gliding takes skill, experience, and luck--plus in that > kind of descent you'd have to compensate for the acceleration. I might > accept Tarrant has that kind of skill and experience--not Avon. Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be too difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct. Your right, getting a W.W.II Bomber to glide for a long time would be extremely difficult because of its relatively short wingspan. Most areoplanes will produce a glide ratio of 10:1 - every 10ft travelled forward, you drop 1ft. Real gliders with huge wingspans, giving them much higher glide ratios (50:1), can stay in the air for a very long time riding the thermals and the pilot doesn't need that much training. The NASA Space Shuttle spends most of its descent just gliding in, because of its design and there are a number of new satelitte launch systems in progress which glide back to Earth like the Space Shuttle. But with the design of the shuttles in B7, these things were basically bricks with small wings - definitely not gliders. I agree that Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with a stormy, violent atmosphere. These things would need to be flown in. If Avon was in a decent shuttle design he probably could have done a controlled glide landing. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:32:48 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <000801bfcbe7$486c3c40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Dobson said - >Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be too >difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct... I agree that >Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with >a stormy, violent atmosphere. Those on the list who are as old as me will know how resonant the phrase 're-entry corridor' is - do you remember waiting to see whether the Apollo astronauts would be able to get back down to Earth through the atmosphere? That has permanently impressed on my mind how dangerous atmospheric re-entry can be. Orbit was only - what? 10 years after that. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:17:26 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds Message-ID: <008201bfcbf2$69f2b0a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana wrote > OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is reading this, > but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic rather than > eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the series, > what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well, I can > figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be expected in > terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size of exit > wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for the > injured person? If it's for fanic, then the simple answer is "Whatever the plot demands." Next to no details were given on the function of all the various weapons in the series (check out the entry for 'Weapons' in the Sevencyclopaedia, on Judith Proctor's website). The people massacred in The Way Back sprouted little squirts of flame before falling to the floor - this, combined with the lack of any knockback from impact, might be taken to indicate a laser (assuming that a portable laser could be developed with sufficient power to be lethal - contentious, but Belkov does refer to laser rifles in Games, and laser was one of the modes for the Scorpio clipgun, as cited by Dayna in Rescue). Damage effects is a humungously big field - you could try hunting down a dictionary of forensic science, that should include a lot of info on gunshot wounds. But the only predictable thing about combat damage is that it is unpredictable. Some people go down after being just grazed by a bullet, others carry on without even knowing they've been shot. The potential for the human body to survive incredible amounts of injury is amazing - various individuals have survived being shot point-blank in the head, or having their throats slit, despite hours or even days without any medical attention. I read once about a boy who had his arm torn off by a passing truck - he picked it up and carried it to the nearest hospital. If the story needs someone to defy the odds, then s/he can be allowed to. Unless the story really needs specific info, you can probably talk around it. Even if you do need technical info, you can often make it up by couching it in terms specific to the milieu - characters can swap medical banter that means something to *them*, even if the specifics are lost on the reader. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:40:16 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Message-ID: <3936216F.BAFABB97@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote: > Steve wrote: > Vila,> > > There is - I call it a Mutual Disparagement Society, which is as near as > I can get to the right flavour. Oh, that's cute, that is. > Takes a while to click in (Bounty is where I > think it starts really working) but it's quite wonderful to watch. They've > no illusions about each other - the mixture of respect (for each other's > skills) contempt (for each other's characters) and genuine liking is unique. For me the key to understanding Avon's relationship with Vila is that Vila's acceptance of Avon is unconditional--yes, Vila sees Avon's flaws, but he doesn't really care; Vila lives in the moment, anyway, so unless Avon is causing Vila problems *right then*, Avon's flaws are irrelevant. Vila never tries to get Avon to change, to do the right thing, to be noble--to be someone he's not--which is likely appreciated by Avon, after what must have been a lifetime of people trying to get him to conform to their idea of 'nice' (I think the main reason Anna appealed is that she was clever enough to give Avon a good imitation of this kind of unconditional acceptance.) And then there's the mutual respect for each other's expertise, which, along with Vila's nimble mind (and shared hobbies--theft and games) give Avon an excuse he can live with for having a Delta for a friend--Vila's not just any Delta, he's Avon's Very Special Pet Delta ;-) which is perhaps why Avon's always bragging on Vila when he's not around. They're so cute together :) Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:24:47 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <002a01bfcbf6$bf90e280$60249ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page added... > >Actually, gliding from the edge of the atmosphere isn't supposed to be too > >difficult, if the design of the shuttle is correct... I agree that > >Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with > >a stormy, violent atmosphere. > > Those on the list who are as old as me will know how resonant the phrase > 're-entry corridor' is - do you remember waiting to see whether the Apollo > astronauts would be able to get back down to Earth through the atmosphere? > That has permanently impressed on my mind how dangerous atmospheric re-entry > can be. Orbit was only - what? 10 years after that. Checking back over the episode, the shuttle never makes it past the atmosphere. They are still part of the atmospheric distubances of the planet. With calmer weather and a better design of the shuttle a glide path in would have been attainable. But then they have to decide where to land. They would have needed a long landing strip and some form of undercarriage. I think all the shuttles I saw in B7 relied on vertical takeoff/landing. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:14:10 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Blake's Back Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sheelagh Wells wrote to me today to say that she's had several enquiries recently for Blake's Back (the first Together Again tape featuring Paul Darrow and Gareth Thomas, which is currently out of print). If there's a few more people interested, then she'll do a short duplication run, but she really needs to know in the next couple of weeks. If you would want a copy (and it is a really enjoyable tape which I highly recommend) then write to Sheelagh Wells, 20a New Rd, Brentford, Middlesex, TW8 ONX Or you can e-mail me (as long as you include name and address) and I'll print them out and pass them along to Sheelagh. If you want to know more about the tape, there's a review on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Look in the merchandise section. Judith PS. There were a few people last year interested in a new run of Liberatored, but not quite enough to make it viable. If a second run of Blake's Back works out, then Sheelagh might look into Liberatored again. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:28:30 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 31 May, Dana Shilling wrote: > OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is reading this, > but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic rather than > eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the series, > what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well, I can > figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be expected in > terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size of exit > wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for the > injured person? You use exactly the same rule that the script-writers did. That of dramatic necessity. ie. A good trauma team could have saved Blake and there is one available withing the necessary distance *if* your plot requires it. Good guys always get shot in teh shoulder (nothing fatal injured) or in the leg (dramatic limp requiring assistance) Bad guys generally die first shot regardless of weapon used. Their chance of survival increases with rank. Apart from that, practically the only data we have is a small burn mark on the chests of some (but not all) of those shot by Federation weapons. (this was a pre-watershed programme) If you need a particular dramatic effect, invent a new weapon. whatever we do know about weapons in the series can be found on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 in the Sevencyclopaedia. Look at the entry for weapons. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:53:27 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: reviews/ages/SCHOOL & stuff Message-ID: <000001bfcd98$7f50fb80$f574073e@leanet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Julie Horner >From: "Nic Mayer" > >> I've also been lurking for a bit. To read the messages, right click on it, >> then press the details tab, click on message source, and it will all be >> there. > >Oh hurrah Nic and thankyou!! Finally I can read the messages >sent by Nick Moffit. > I am pleased for you Julie. Didn't work for me though, so I still rely on people replying to Nick's comments. Gnog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:47:16 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] City at the Edge of the World Message-ID: <20000531.184842.-88215.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 31 May 2000 12:43:30 EDT RCalla6725@aol.com writes: > I've never seen this episode before - does the title intentionally > rip off > the Star Trek one? (City at the Edge of Forever) > Well, sort of. ST had a planet once inhabited by an incredibly advanced race. B7 had a planet once inhabited by fairly advanced race. The ST race was dead or gone with no forwarding address. The B7 race showed up regularly for camp outs and get togethers. THe ST race left a doorway in time and space, capable of going all sorts of interesting places (and with a few serious design flaws, if you ask me). The B7 race left a doorway usually going nowhere (and with a few serious design flaws, if you ask me). ST had one of its least threatening characters lose it, get off the ship, hide so the others couldn't find him and beam him up, and go through the door. B7 had one of its least threatening characters lose it from fear, dump his teleport bracelet so the others couldn't find him and teleport him out, and go through the door ST had a subplot dealing with Nazis (known for their black gestapo uniforms) taking over the world. B7 had a subplot about heavily armed psychos (wearing black) trying to take over a world, at least for a little while. The ST crew comes for their friend. The B7 crew considers coming for their friend. (Spoiler ahead, be warned) In ST, Kirk meets a woman on the other side of the doorway and has to decide whether to literally trade the future for a life with her. He makes the nobler choice. In B7, one character meets someone and has to decide between a future with said individual and a life of unrestrained kleptomania. What choice? No, no resemblance between them at all. The titles are just a coincidence. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:14:02 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.2.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:40:16 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > > Sally wrote: > > > Steve wrote: > > between Avon and > > Vila,> > > > > There is - I call it a Mutual Disparagement Society, which is > as near as > > I can get to the right flavour. > I've always loved the description "a man and his dog" (although Vila always struck me slightly as a dog trying (unsuccessfully) to pretend he was a cat). The phrase kind of captures the friendly with no illusions of mental equality aspect of their relationship. Not to mention Avon's constant efforts to make sure Vila didn't forget who was leader of the pack. But then, Avon was probably raised by a pack of wolves anyway.... Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:25:40 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:17:26 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" writes: > Dana wrote > > OK, I'm in trouble if the FBI Serial Killer Profiler Unit is > reading this, > > but I really do want to know for purposes of creating fanfic > rather than > > eliminating droves of people. For the various weapons shown in the > series, > > what exactly happens when someone gets shot by one of them? (Well, > I can > > figure out "stun.") That is, what kind of injuries could be > expected in > > terms of blood loss, fractures, burns, neurological damage, size > of exit > > wounds, etc., and what is the time frame for getting treatment for > the > > injured person? > > If it's for fanic, then the simple answer is "Whatever the plot > demands." > [Big snip] With one minor exception (my pet peeve). If you chop off a major limb or have the character do some major bleeding, please, try to remember the need for major arteries being properly pinched closed through the injury or through the quick thinking of one of the characters and their tourniquet. I once read the rather vivid account of a nurse dealing with some major injuries in a wilderness area with no help for days, and it made a permanent impression about how people can keep going despite incredible injuries - so long as they don't lose all their blood. If you go with lasers, bleeding should be limited and most wounds would be automatically cauterized (which has made me wonder about how useful they are as weapons compared to bullets, but no doubt the armor stormtroopers and even Federation guards wear must be good for something since percussion weapons are so rarely seen). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:47:09 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > More lovely plotholes to play with... OK, here comes the detailed defense for "could they have landed?" First, my tape of this ep comes from one of those bad transmission nights, so I don't really know what the shuttle looked like (It happened a lot. I'm still irked about not knowing Peri had a crab pin on until she told Avon. Despite the fact it was the TV's fault, I still feel like it was plot cheating). However, I've got a pretty good tape of Deliverance, in which characters were able to land with reasonable (if not fantastic) expectations of survival in what were basically described as two over-sized bullets. Now, those were designed, I'm sure, with at least some safety features (air-bags?), which the shuttle may not have had. All we know for certain is the tachyon funnel (which didn't have a seat belt) was expected to survive with only minor damage (although the less than brilliant soul who came up with this trap said he'd anticipated Avon and Vila realizing it was a trap, having the funnel tossed out the rear door wasn't considered [hard to say if he was lying or not, since the shuttle was still in trouble]). Since the funnel didn't look that tough, I have to assume some sort of safety features. Second, Avon and Vila didn't seem that far along into the flight before they found out there was a problem. A great deal more time seemed to be spent throwing things off and hunting for Vila. Third, the time Avon spends looking for Vila would be less critical if they were still early on in the flight, if I remember the math covering this sort of thing correctly (which I may not). That is, if they cover 90% of the remaining distance in that time period, a lot more weight will need to be jettisoned to cover the remaining 10%. OTOH, if they had covered only 10% of the remaining distance, the weight amount will still be greater, but not nearly as much. It _might_ have been too late to land and the shuttle _might_ not have been able to with either Avon or Orac piloting. But it _could_ have been possible. Given the time factor, I would guess it _was_ possible. But I could be wrong. Just don't tell me Avon would have thought of it if it were. He misses a lot of obvious thoughts in this one. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:26:32 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Message-ID: <20000601.192635.-88517.3.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:16:58 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > > Ellynne/Sally: > > > > whole Anna > > Grant thing.> > > Yes, there's some angst potential in the A/C scenario Ellynne > has painted, but not IMO more than with Avon/Anna, and here's > why: Avon's big fear is betrayal (and perhaps secondarily, loss). > Trusting the wrong person. It's *not* having failed to trust > someone that might have lived up to his trust. With Anna, you > have the ultimate betrayal, the greatest possible manifestation > of his fear; with Cally you would have failure to trust, but that's > the price one pays for Avon's brand of self-protection--a regret > only, not on the level of pain caused by opening up to someone > and then being stabbed in the heart. > Good point. I _do_ think Avon generally feels a lot worse about the whole Anna thing than he does about Cally. However, I was thinking Avon might feel, since his actions had helped get Cally killed, _he_ was the one who'd betrayed _her_. Depending on what was going on his psyche, a scenario could be made in which he felt more intense about it than about Anna (arguable, and I don't know which side of the arguement I'm on). Then there's the cumulative factor.... Hmm. I'll have to think about this. > > Notwithstanding that I do think he is - in some ways - closer to > and more > > comfortable with Vila - I have to say Cally is the *only* other > one of the > > entire Liberator/Scorpio crews I can even imagine him going to > Terminal for > > (and I'm still dubious, but with Cally there is that maybe). > > I really don't think he'd choose certain death for anyone but Blake > and Anna, but he'd certainly take considerable risks for Cally; the > thing that *might* tip the odds in her favour is that he'd know that > she'd go to Terminal for him. Another good point. I wonder what the aftermath would be if Cally had done something like that and _had_ saved his skin.... If I remember right, this gets brought up somewhere in Blake's 7: The Inside Story. Someone asked why, after Cally was killed, Avon didn't let off some steam and admit that he'd loved her instead of holding it in. I was expecting them to say something about Avon's feelings for Cally being ambiguous, but whoever they asked said it was because the conversation would have been, "I loved her and you people got her killed," bang, bang, bang. End of fourth season. I guess he could be that irrational. Maybe. Still thinking. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:40:52 EDT From: JEB31538@cs.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org Subject: [B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake Message-ID: <8.5c468e7.26686aa4@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know where I've been that I missed that there was an Avon model available. (I hope this isn't a weird joke that Proctor is playing on us.) You can buy it as a kit, fully assembled, or fully painted via Judith Proctor. Right now only Avon (it does figure!! ) is available. http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/MerchantModels/Index.html Has someone else mentioned this on the list and I've missed it? I remember that someone on one list was talking about it being a possibility about a month or so ago. Proctor said that if people show interest in other figures more will be done. PLEASE go to the website and send an Email showing an interest in Blake!! What I said was that I wanted Blake and that if a Blake were done, then I would buy both the Avon and the Blake. There's no way I am spending money on just an Avon. I know some of you others have favorite other figures. Let's get Blake done as a figure, and then decide who # 3 should be. Maybe it should be Vila or Tarrant -- or perhaps Jenna or Cally. I'm excited that finally something new in being done in B7 merchandise. But I want Blake, too. Please go to the site and check it out. Do the Email saying you want Blake---or if you honestly have some other character that you want to be the second one done, then state who that is. Joyce Bowen JEB31538@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:40:46 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Terminal (was Sarcophagus) Message-ID: <012901bfcc65$df3949a0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellyne said - >Good point. I _do_ think Avon generally feels a lot worse about the >whole Anna thing than he does about Cally. There's so much to say on both sides. Just throwing one more idea in. Avon is *changed* more - and more for the worse - by Cally's death than by Anna's. Let me rephrase that. Avon is probably changed hugely and dramatically by Anna's first 'death' - when he thinks she dies during their escape. The whole Avon personality of seasons 1-3 is influenced by that trauma I suppose. But of the two deaths in season 3, Cally's is associated with a bigger change in personality. After RoD Avon is perhaps slightly mellowed if anything. After terminal he changes very dramatically to become the series 4 'was he mad' Avon. As Paul Darrow put it, after Cally dies, Avon had two options - if he had felt normal emotions he would have rejected the whole Xenon base project, blamed and killed the rest of the crew and given up at this point. As this would have spoiled the story he had to go into the fourth season with something other than normal emotions. >Hmm. > >I'll have to think about this. ditto Ellyne also said - > whoever they asked said it was because the conversation >would have been, "I loved her and you people got her killed," bang, bang, >bang. End of fourth season. Yes, that was Paul Darrow who said it. Which I think shows that he didn't just blunder into fourth season as some kind of macho unthinking action man. Unless it's retrospective rationalisation. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:58:17 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] War Wounds Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Ellynne G. wrote: > injuries - so long as they don't lose all their blood. If you go with > lasers, bleeding should be limited and most wounds would be automatically > cauterized (which has made me wonder about how useful they are as weapons I'm not sure this is true. At any rate, I dimly recall reading something about laser weapons which indicated that they wouldn't neatly cauterize the wound. Rather, the sudden heating of the outer layers of the body would cause them to explode, creating a very messy, but shallow wound. Nice. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:43:51 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <393757A7.1EF24CB9@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellynne wrote: > On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:07:53 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > More lovely plotholes to play with... > > OK, here comes the detailed defense for "could they have landed?" > It _might_ have been too late to land and the shuttle _might_ not have > been able to with either Avon or Orac piloting. But it _could_ have been > possible. Given the time factor, I would guess it _was_ possible. It occurred to me while reading this post that I'd completely obscured my own point--yes, it might have been possible to land the shuttle. But it equally might not have been possible, or the more dangerous of the available options, for the reasons I listed, among others. Therefore we can't say 'oops--they should have landed, what a plot hole!' It might have been tidier if Vila had said 'Why don't we land?' and Avon had said 'Because....', but they didn't. It's up to us to figure out the because. For me, if I say 'the writer goofed', that's cheating. Which leaves (1) landing was impossible/too dangerous; or (2) Avon and Vila didn't think of it. (1) strikes me as easier to build a plausible defense for. And certainly as plausible to say they couldn't land as to say that they could. Mistral (Perhaps one day, I'll get Neil into the spirit of the game, and he'll find a way to prove that Dawn of the Gods fits into canon perfectly.) -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:52:31 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <39374B9E.B3DD8DEF@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Dobson wrote: > But with the design of the shuttles in B7, these things were > basically bricks with small wings - definitely not gliders. I agree that > Avon wouldn't have been able to glide this shuttle down, into a planet with > a stormy, violent atmosphere. These things would need to be flown in. If > Avon was in a decent shuttle design he probably could have done a controlled > glide landing. You're right; I was assuming Egrorian's shuttle wasn't designed for gliding; I should have said so. Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:50:35 +0100 From: "David A McIntee" To: Subject: [B7L] Gareth in Dr Who Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Specifically in one of the Big Finish audio CDs: "Storm Warning" (January 2001): Written by Alan Barnes (editor of Doctor Who Magazine), directed by Gary Russell. Paul McGann returns to Doctor Who in the first of four stories as the Eighth Doctor; also introducing India Fisher as Charlotte "Charley" Pollard and guest starring Gareth Thomas ("Blake's 7") as Lord Tamworth. "After a dangerous encounter in the space/time vortex, the Doctor finds himself on Earth, October 1930. Or rather above it, aboard the British airship R101 on it's maiden voyage over France. Also on board is a young stowaway, Charlotte 'Charley' Pollard, seeking adventure and excitement away from her stifling family atmosphere. What Charley doesnąt know but the Doctor does is that the flight is destined to end in tragedy, although no-one really knows why. Not even the Doctor, although maybe the passenger in Cabin 43 can help..." Also starring Nicholas Pegg (Frayling), Barnaby Edwards (Rathbone), Hylton Collins (Chief Steward Weeks), and Helen Goldwyn (Triskelion). Set around an airship disappearance in 1930. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #151 **************************************