From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #184 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/184 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 184 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status [B7L] Creations [B7L] Zenith [B7L] Paul Darrow Fwd: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Fwd: [B7L] Creations Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Creations Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Creations Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Re: [B7L] ZENITH IS HERE... Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Greco-Roman comedy Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like DotG back story [was Re: [B7L] Fav episodes] Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:22:55 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Message-ID: <0dea01bfe274$c82d02e0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet wrote: > Neil wrote: > >My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though > >I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off. > > So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair. Me too, Harriet. Especially after seeing Tom Baker as Puddleglum (the only redeeming feature in those whole ghastly BBC productions). 'The Magician's Nephew' would probably come a close second. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:19:50 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Message-ID: <0de101bfe274$59f511a0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline: > At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote: > > >I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm > >afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal > >all. > > That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before > redemption has even started. Don't worry, Jacqueline. Iain can be easily distracted in a pub. All you do is point at a window and shout, 'Look! Sinofar!' and then run away to the bar when he looks away hopefully. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:28:51 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630102558.00a8d140@pop3.wish.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:45 29-6-00, Nyder wrote: >I think the Daily Mail would call Vila workshy I think even Vila would call Vila workshy. That doesn't turn him into an example of the "working class". He's more like someone who uses "working class" status because he thinks that that'll keep him from being held responsible for anything. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:21:45 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote: > > >I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm > >afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal > >all. > > That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before > redemption has even started. That's the first hour sorted, then. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:01:36 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Message-ID: <008c01bfe28b$062542e0$df099ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From the keyboard of Jacqueline Thijsen : > At 14:45 29-6-00, Nyder wrote: > >I think the Daily Mail would call Vila workshy > > I think even Vila would call Vila workshy. That doesn't turn him into an > example of the "working class". He's more like someone who uses "working > class" status because he thinks that that'll keep him from being held > responsible for anything. > Yes, and when he gets the oppotunity to do something he likes and it good at, he can put a lot of effort into it. Like in City or in Seek-Locate-Destroy. Nothing gets Vila working harder than when he's in danger himself. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:54:29 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Creations Message-ID: <0f6801bfe2ab$93f364b0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been slow answering these - sorry. It's much easier just to fire off frivolous responses to other people's frivolous remarks. Having to think about what I'm writing is too much for this cat. I wrote: > I'm going to argue that B7 was a Chris Boucher creation rather than a Terry Nation one Neil responded: > It depends what you mean by creation. As far as I can gather, the original > concept was all Nation's (all but the bits he pillaged from elsewhere, like > Robin Hood and the Dirty Dozen and Huxley etc, which actually adds up to > quite a lot of the original concept). Boucher refined and redefined it, not > least through writing some of the most important episodes, but I wouldn't > say he created the series as such. > > Depends on what you mean by 'creation', I s'pose... Fiona countered: > In defense of Nation-- Pillaging doesn't count. > but there's nothing new under the sun. It's not whether the > concept is original, it's what you do with it. It's not so much the pillaging I was thinking about - Boucher was as much a pillager as everyone else: look at all the lines he'd lift from westerns. I'll freely admit that the concept is Nation's, but your point is right, Fiona. It's not the concept, it's what you do with. This is where I think Boucher's influence is absolutely key. Iain sums up very well: > Obviously, there's a clear sense in which Terry Nation was the creator. > However, if we ask about what makes B7 unique, about who created that part > of the show that is distinctly its own and differentiates it from any > other TV space opera, then it has to be Boucher. Absolutely, and this is not just because I think Boucher wrote what are, to me, definitive episodes ('Blake', 'Star One', 'Rumours' etc). It's because of the job he held throughout the production of the show. As script editor, Boucher pretty much had the final word on *all* the scripts that went out. This would mean that *every single episode* would be subjected to Boucher's touch. I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of those one-liners that people love from even the crappier episodes are the result of Chris Boucher's red pen. Moreover, there are several occasions when scripts were running under and Boucher wrote more material (uncredited) to bring the episode up to the right time length (is it 'Breakdown' or 'Bounty' - or both - that's the classic one here?). I wonder if there any other examples from later seasons when Boucher basically had to rewrite an entire script so that is was suitable for the show. Terry Nation had limited input on the show during season 3, and none across season 4. The producer (the other person who really would have significant impact on a show) changed between seasons 3 and 4. Directors were BBC staff who were brought in for individual episodes. Only Boucher was there throughout the full 4 season run. It's interesting to remember that Bob Holmes was offered the job of script editor on B7. I'd argue that the show would have been *completely* different if he'd accepted, rather than suggesting Boucher to Maloney. What would a Bob Holmes B7 have been like? 'Gambit' meets 'Raffles' is my bet. Incidentally, I think 'Survivors' is terrific, is absolutely Nation's creation, and that once he was off the show (season 3?), it was crap (except for 'The Last Laugh'). Of course, maybe there was a really good script editor there too... Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:11:17 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Zenith Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri 30 Jun, Christine+Steve wrote: > Fiona requested : > > > > You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!) > > Ummm.... I would if I knew what Zenith was... and it was available in > Canada. *s* It's the trial issue of a B7 magazine and I can easily mail copies to Canada. You can order it via my web site and pay by plastic. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:08:21 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri 30 Jun, DragonFly wrote: > > this is going to sound a funny questions (and I am asking on behalf of my > husband) does anyone know Paul Darrow's agent address or where he would > write to him on business level? You can write to Paul care of Ann Bown of the Avon club, 37 Byfleet Ave, Old Basing, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG24 7HR She'll forward mail to him. (It's courteous to enclose stamps for return postage) > > whats happening with the proposed film? not heard much about it lately. Well, in the issue of the Avon club magazine that reached me last week, it says that things are moving forward slowly. There's more detail, but I'm feeling too grotty to type much today. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 20:44:41 BST 2000 From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-Id: <200006301949.UAA32438@ns4.uk2net.com> Someone (have lost track) re: Trial: > > > > I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque > > alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been. I like the alien because it's another fresh-out-of-drama-school moment. I find it endearing. (And it's nice to see someone on B7 who does physical acting rather than intense, broody closeups and clipped dialogue - not that I'd be without those for the world... see below...) > Neil/Una/Fiona: > > > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the > > > > Best Boots in the entire series. > > > > > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair > > > > > > > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with > > the Boots! > > I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust. Trust > me. Zits galore. > Zits or not, you've got me *and* Fiona to contend with now. Thania's chin is above reproach. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:29:19 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail Message-ID: <20000629.094845.-104627.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:45:13 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > > Ellynne wrote: > > > On Fri, 09 Jun 2000 23:41:20 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > > > > > > > > Jessica Taylor wrote: > > > > > > > I was trying to think of > > > > people for Cally and Vila but I got stuck, any ideas? > > > > > > Ellynne does a good Cally. > > > > I've been thinking about this and, despite some feelings some > people have > > towards Cally, think I can live with it. Cally probably is the > one I > > identify with the most. > > And I've been thinking about this, and it rather worries me that you > might think my comment was intended as a dig. It wasn't. > No, no, no. I didn't take this as a dig. My first reaction was she _is_ the one I most identify with. Then I thought about the fanfic I did for Kathryn's Staked Blake, in which Cally figures prominently, and had a knee-jerk desire to point out this is NOT Mary Sue by another name. I'm not so much self-conscious about the Cally comparison as I am incredibly self-conscious about having written a nonflippant B7 story and getting nervous about how it will be received (although Kathryn liked it, which is a very good sign, I hope). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 20:51:51 BST 2000 From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender Message-Id: <200006301956.UAA32505@ns4.uk2net.com> My e-mail messed up the other day and I inadvertently deleted a bunch of messages, so I can't remember who said it, but it was something like: "Servalan as a role model for women is like Himmler as a role model for chicken farmers" Which is a fair point, but I don't mean she's an inspiration because she got to run a military dictatorship - um... Consider the difference between Servalan and Margaret Thatcher for a moment, if you will. One of them, despite running the country, remained firmly within a particular frilly-blouses-and-smart-shoes safe, respectable-woman, self-presentation: Servalan, on the other hand, despite being a fascist and not a good role model for anyone, messed about with gender categories to an extent where it's not even possible to talk about "masculinity" and "femininity" any more, through excessive clothing and a near- constant (let's leave Harvest and Sand out of it for a moment) refusal to lapse into any kind of traditional 'feminine' behaviour. She's not your typical femme fatale at all - I've never seen a female character like her. (Actually, she reminds me a bit of Jareth out of Labyrinth, which is great because I thought you had to be a bloke to be that cool). Not making much sense here, sorry. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 21:12:43 BST 2000 From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Message-Id: <200006302017.VAA32642@ns4.uk2net.com> Gnog: > But, you are correct, the main screen on the liberator does not display a > direct optical image, but an image processed by the computer. As such it is > equally likely to be inaccurate as any other information the computers > present. I think what Jarvik is refering to is that he has an instinct that > there is a conflict between the two forms of data (main screen and Zen's > verbal report). [snip] On the whole this scene comes down to the theme of > the episode. Servalan believes the direct output of the computer > unquestioningly, and acts to minimise her personal danger. Jarvik interprets > all of the information presented to him, takes into acount the human > element, trusts his instincts, and takes calculated risks. Ha! Ha! I *knew* it! Just because *we* know Jarvik is right doesn't mean he actually has a likely chance of being right! (Sorry, the whole "I'm a natural man" thing gets on my nerves. And as for the last time Servalan felt the sun of a world on her skin, it was Aftermath and she was being semi-crucified by the Sarrans. There's good reason for her to stay on her ship.) > > How about Servalan only stunning Jarvik, rather than killing him, and Jarvik > joining the crew, set on overthrowing a Federation regime so cold, heartless > and dependant on technology ? A three way struggle for control ? I'm afraid I hate Jarvik more than anyone else in the B7 universe, so this prospect fills me with cold shuddering. But, past the cold shuddering, I can't see Tarrant trying to overrule him that much - too much FSA conditioning in their pasts. What *would* be interesting to me would be the ex-Federation vibe between them, and how that would affect the politics of the season. If I got my hands on Jarvik, I would teach him some history. The human race has been dependent on technology since we discovered fire. Just because computers are harder to build doesn't make them qualitatively different. *Chimpanzees* are dependent on technology. (Sorry, Jarvik makes me angry.) > >(Also: can voice messages and images be transmitted faster than light in > the B7 > >universe? How?) > > > It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same > way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through > real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or > anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they > travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about > the divergence of the beam. Basically, the whole communications system is a gift to fanfic writers, and I'm not going to look it in the mouth. As it were. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 21:15:05 BST 2000 From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Message-Id: <200006302019.VAA32661@ns4.uk2net.com> Sorry, I knew there was something else I had to say - Trish, I haven't been able to read your message on this thread (my computer said "Error loading the specified message from disc". I said "What?" and it said "What is not a question. Kindly be more specific." Then I gave up.) Can you mail it to the list (or just to me) again, please? Ta. (PS and re: The Other List - I feel bad that I haven't commented on your story after your help with mine - but I haven't got round to reading it yet. Among the frenzied writing this w/e will be some frenzied reading - I'm looking forward to it.) Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:34:20 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <001a01bfe2d2$93cabc50$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ika: > > Neil/Una/Fiona: > > > > > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the > > > > > Best Boots in the entire series. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair > > > > > > > > > > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with > > > the Boots! > > > > I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust. Trust > > me. Zits galore. > > Zits or not, you've got me *and* Fiona to contend with now. Thania's chin is > above reproach. And above cleanser. I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy hair. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 21:49:44 BST 2000 From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Creations Message-Id: <200006302054.VAA00178@ns4.uk2net.com> Una: > Absolutely, and this is not just because I think Boucher wrote what are, to > me, definitive episodes ('Blake', 'Star One', 'Rumours' etc). It's because > of the job he held throughout the production of the show. As script editor, > Boucher pretty much had the final word on *all* the scripts that went out. > This would mean that *every single episode* would be subjected to Boucher's > touch. I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of those one-liners that people > love from even the crappier episodes are the result of Chris Boucher's red > pen. I just wanted to say that in my house (currently a fan-only zone, hooray, we got rid of the Thieving Skag Addict) if any good line comes up in an episode which otherwise isn't popular, we turn to each other and say "Boucher" and nod wisely. It may or may not be true, but the fan-construct "Boucher" is certainly responsible for All Good Things about the show. (Although a lot of Terry Nation episodes are among my favourites.) > > It's interesting to remember that Bob Holmes was offered the job of script > editor on B7. I'd argue that the show would have been *completely* different > if he'd accepted, rather than suggesting Boucher to Maloney. What would a > Bob Holmes B7 have been like? 'Gambit' meets 'Raffles' is my bet. Ooh, that would have been interesting. ("Gambit" is such a weird episode - I *always* think it's Season 3, because it has that feel to it, and have to force myself to remember that it can't be because Blake and Travis are in it.) Another fantasy in my house is (for some reason) that Robert Holmes and Chris Boucher were best friends and used to spend a lot of time drinking Earl Grey and discussing B7 and getting good lines into otherwise naff episodes. God knows why (probably the influence of the Whovian who started us off on B7 in the first place) but we see RH as the second parent of the show, an invisible guiding hand. (There are a couple of 'reasons', but these are more suited to the Other List.) Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:27:10 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <7e.6fd2049.268e6aae@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy > hair. Una, if she's a Marxist and wears coveralls, she may be Neil's dreamgirl... Morrigan (aka Trish) "I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. " ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:50:15 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Creations Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII When looking at Boucher's influence on B7, it's interesting to cross-compare with Star Cops. Devis has distinct shades of Vila and Kenzie makes me think of how a female Avon might have been. The overlap is by no means total, but comparing Box to Orac will give an instant flash of recognition. I've never felt Theroux mapped onto anyone in B7, but the relationship between Nathan and Kenzie (honest cop, bent cop) did have shades of Blake and Avon as the two developed a strong mutual respect over time. Judith PS. One of the more interesting bits of Attwood's B7 programme guide is the interview with Chris Boucher. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:57:38 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <004f01bfe2de$e1377b70$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trish: > > I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy > > hair. > > Una, if she's a Marxist and wears coveralls, she may be Neil's dreamgirl... Oh *that's* where I've been going wrong! And there was I thinking no-one could resist a Tory twinset and blue rinse... Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:04:54 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Creations Message-ID: <005e01bfe2df$3ac84110$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ika: > I just wanted to say that in my house (currently a fan-only zone, hooray, we > got rid of the Thieving Skag Addict) if any good line comes up in an episode > which otherwise isn't popular, we turn to each other and say "Boucher" and nod > wisely. Yes, we do that too! > It may or may not be true, but the fan-construct "Boucher" is certainly > responsible for All Good Things about the show. An uber-Boucher, huh? > Another fantasy in my house is (for some reason) that Robert Holmes and Chris > Boucher were best friends and used to spend a lot of time drinking Earl Grey > and discussing B7 and getting good lines into otherwise naff episodes. Like Barry Letts and Terrence Dicks, who meet up for a chip supper every week, bless. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:01:54 +0100 From: "Ariana" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Message-ID: <01a101bfe2e1$8c759ba0$bde407c3@ariana> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Una McCormack > > Neil wrote: > > >My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though > > >I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off. > > > > So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair. > > Me too, Harriet. Especially after seeing Tom Baker as Puddleglum (the only > redeeming feature in those whole ghastly BBC productions). 'The Magician's > Nephew' would probably come a close second. "The Magician's Nephew" and "The Horse and His Boy" for me, though I agree "The Silver Chair" was very good too -- and very spooky. I wasn't too struck on Lucy, so the stories where she features heavily tend not to be my favourites. Still, I indulged myself a few years back and read the whole saga onto cassette for a library for the Blind. Which was nice. Amazingly, the Narnia stories came recently up on another list I'm on. We then branched off onto Watership Down -- hands up anyone who worshipped that book as much as I did (first thing I wrote fanfic for!). Ariana http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:32:29 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Message-ID: <007d01bfe2e3$15092e40$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ariana: > Amazingly, the Narnia stories came recently up on another list I'm on. We > then branched off onto Watership Down -- hands up anyone who worshipped that > book as much as I did (first thing I wrote fanfic for!). Yeah, I loved 'Watership Down'. And I love the cartoon film as well. I wasn't keen on his other books, tho'. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:45:24 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Andy Hopkinson" , "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] ZENITH IS HERE... Message-ID: <000a01bfe2e4$36e28920$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got my contributor's copy (shameless bias warning) and I have to say it is great. The cover exceeds expectations (love the picture of Brian Croucher on the back. Why isn't this man playing big-man-on-the-manor in any of the recent spate of cockney-gangster films?). The articles, my own efforts aside, are thus far excellent-- I haven't had a chance to get all the way through yet as I got in around eleven last night, but Una's piece on the Beeb is spot on, Judith's take on Collector's Lot provoked the odd knowing chuckle, and I'm sure the other pieces will be as good. To add to this praise, my flatmate, who is a non-fan and has never seen any B7, borrowed my copy (before I'd had a chance to read it, the beggar) and was equally impressed; said it was better than three-quarters of the professionally produced stuff out there. Let's have an Issue 2, Andy, please? Willing to help in any capacity but the financial... Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:30:39 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Greco-Roman comedy Message-ID: <01d601bfe2ee$3043b260$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Meredith Dixon > On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:26:12 -0400, you wrote: > >I thought it was on the way to the forum... but yes, I believe it was > >based on Plautus. Very vague feeling the original play might be > >"Pseudolus", but I can't remember ever reading any Plautus, so if someone > >knows better... > > It is "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum", and it's based on > the "Captivi". At the risk of being ultra-pedantic, not to mention pointlessly so, I believe the original Broadway production was called "A Funny Thing Happened *to me* on the Way to the Forum". Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:33:24 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) Message-ID: <01d401bfe2ee$2e19cd80$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Time to try and catch up on all those posts I would have liked to have answered sooner. (Why has the Lyst suddenly exploded of late?) Ellynne: >But there's also the long standing > tradition of the trickster in folklore or the jester in real life. > Shakespeare lived in a rather dangerous time (producing the wrong play > could get you sent to the hangman) but still wrote (quoting from memory > and probably getting it wrong), "There is no slander in a licensed fool > though he do nothing but rail." Jesters and fools were supposed to act > as some kind of social safety valve, criticizing ironies in life and in > individual conduct but often from within a context of overall social > support. Rather like the slave whispering "Remember you are mortal" in the general's ear. Because that's what he was told to do. Isobel: This is straying somewhat from the line I was taking, since a carnival is a participatory event directly involving the people, whilst the Cheeky Cockney archetype is an element within a media product (book, film, whatever) produced for consumption by the people. Dana: Good comparison. Why does it bring to mind a certain song by Pulp (Alison should know which one I mean). Ika: The two can work in tandem. The Cheeky Cockney does not deny the inequalities, rather he is there to affirm their validity. He is not a safety valve, but a salve for upper class guilt. He is created by the ruling class, for the ruling class, and then foisted on the unwashed masses as an example of what they ought to be like. His rotten lot has been acknowledged, ergo nothing more need be done to improve it. This trivialising misrepresentation, repeated with sufficient frequency, then enters into society's perception of itself, establishing a tradition which the lower classes themselves might end up perpetuating if only to gain approval from above. In Britain, this treatment of the lower classes in popular media was probably predominant until the end of the Second World War, after which the traditional class boundaries began to crumble in earnest. Vila might be regarded as one of the last of his kind, as created by a child of that war. Thank you, comrades, for expressing your willingness to question certain aspects of the superior ideology's prevailing correctness. I did consider issuing you all with a set of winter clothing and packing you all on board a train to Siberia, but then I had a change of heart. You're not getting any winter clothing*. Neil *(Yes, alright, I know, I nicked that one from Judge Dredd.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:34:06 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like Message-ID: <01d701bfe2ee$31504060$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Una McCormack > Neil wrote: > > > PS Do not trust the judgement of the one called Una. I once saw her pull > > some small change out of her pocket to buy a pint at the convention bar, > and > > what came out with her coinage? Fish bones and black and white feathers, > > that's what. Oh, how shamelessly does evil flaunt itself in its > arrogance! > > Don't be ludicrous, Neil - I have never knowingly paid for drinks in my > life. So you don't actually know that you are an unwitting pawn in their grand conspiracy? There might yet be some slender filament of hope for you. Of course, as an unwitting pawn you could hardly be expected to know, could you? Just keep your wits about you in future, and be extra cautious of anything that shuffles. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:50:44 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: DotG back story [was Re: [B7L] Fav episodes] Message-ID: <200006301951_MC2-AAD1-75DC@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ellynne wrote: >OK (warning, this may bore some people more than > the original, but, hey, I like it). and then went on to outline her backstory to Dawn of the Gods... I'm overwhelmed... I think it's wonderful. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:14:10 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <021901bfe2f6$978d1120$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Una McCormack > I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy > hair. Thania is clearly a woman who views spotty chins and greasy hair in their due sense of proportion, and I want her telephone number *now*. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:25:42 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: , "Penny Dreadful" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-ID: <000301bfe2e4$315a8520$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny Dreadful To: Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves > Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny > falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept close > to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will you > marry me? Ooh, this is so sudden... All right-- but only if *I* get to wear the flightsuit and eyepatch at the ceremony... Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:30:49 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: , "Jacqueline Thijsen" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-ID: <000801bfe2e4$3569a4c0$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves > At 10:47 29-6-00, Penny Dreadful wrote: > >At 10:41 PM 6/27/00 +0100, Nyder wrote: > > > > >In *my* fantasy-football version they'd've kept Brian Croucher and raised > > >his salary. > > > >Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny > >falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept close > >to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will you > >marry me? > > > > Oh this is so great! Can I be bridesmaid? Can I, can I, please, please, please? Hmm, shall we allow this? Penny? Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:32:12 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: , "B7 List" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <000201bfe2e4$30a1e380$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: B7 List Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond > No, no, no! ;-) Nova was the exception, he was the cheerful > baby-faced serial murderer, and we should all be grateful he > wound up in the sealing gel, else he'd have knocked off the whole > crew by 'Deliverance'. Actually... one of my favourite SF novels, "The Sardonyx Net," which revolves around a society in which the punishment for most crime is enslavement, features a character who is a slave, in her late teens, and very, very innocent-seeming and childish. The reader, along with the protagonist, wonders what the h dash double hockey sticks she did to warrant slavery-- right until the point at which we discover that she had been a brilliant and uncontrollable thief... who had undergone a "brain-wipe." Nova *could* have done something really nasty, and, given the Federation's fondness for mind-altering technology, had it edited out of him. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:28:05 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Neil Faulkner" , "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <000601bfe2e4$33cda800$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Faulkner To: b7 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond > B7 was, of course, caught in the trap of being evening family entertainment, > so it had to follow the conventions of that time slot. In a way this worked > to the series' advantage, since it allowed the writers to allude to > something darker and more realistic without splattering it all over the > screen (which can be very effective, but also tends to be defused by its own > over-indulgence). Yes, though one of the moments that most made me wince in the series was the quick scene in Cygnus Alpha where Blake is dragged off, we hear a scream of agony, and then see him later, visibly somewhat the worse for wear. It's often more effective to put violence offstage, just like explaining a joke kills the humour. I agree about the evening family entertainment bit-- but I think that could provide a good answer to the question of why our heroes weren't the most believable as criminal masterminds. > that Terry Nation wanted to dip his toes in dark waters but was too hesitant > to do so too often, while Chris Boucher had far less reluctance. Hm. Might do an essay on that sometime, as I've heard that a lot and I love taking on received wisdom... Thanks Neil! Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:11:57 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Andrew Ellis" , "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Message-ID: <000401bfe2e4$3211a020$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Ellis To: Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) > From: Ellynne G. > >Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary. Not sure about that-- but Morrigan said it better than I could. On occasion, though, I wonder if Blake *did* have a coherent platform or whether he was just aware that the moment he crossed the line it was only a matter of time before he was tracked down, and was just going to go down with as much fight as possible. > I might agree with the "removing evil from the healthy body" bit. But > doesn't "healthy body" kind of suggest that the Federation, as such, is not > fundamentally evil, but rather a force for "good", that is suffering from a > degree of corruption ? I tend to take the Chris Boucher line myself-- i.e. that it isn't inherently good OR bad, but a degree of both. We do see lots of people who are perfectly happy under the Federation, and to whom Blake etc. do more damage than the Federation ever did; by contrast we also see a lot of horror. But let's pull out a bit. Take the USA-- the most powerful country in the world, third highest standard of living worldwide according to the Metro this morning, generally agreed to have a political system which, for all its faults, is much better than living under a totalitarian dictator. And yet the murder rate is through the roof, large portions of it still allow capital punishment (which is IIRC technically cruel and unusual) and the government places economic sanctions on Cuba simply for having the wrong party in power. Now let's take fascist Italy: a totalitarian dictatorship and an unforgivable one, with a regime merciless to its opponents and notoriously given to activities like chucking "degenerate" art out of windows and deporting foreigners-- and yet I know of elderly Sicilians who have (rather quietly) remarked that they were grateful for the rise in living standards and the suppression of the Mafiosi. I am not in favour of fascism or of totalitarianism of any sort, but I think one can't characterise any regime as *inherently* good or evil. Even the Federation. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:19:02 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender Message-ID: <20000701101902.G2765@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:51:55PM +0000, Ika wrote: > constant (let's leave Harvest and Sand out of it for a moment) > refusal to lapse into any kind of traditional 'feminine' behaviour. > She's not your typical femme fatale at all - I've never seen a > female character like her. (Actually, she reminds me a bit of Jareth > out of Labyrinth, which is great because I thought > you had to be a bloke to be that cool). What, she reminds you of Jareth from Labyrinth because she's cool, or because he defies gender roles? -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #184 **************************************