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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 00 : Issue 199

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point
  out of  stock)
	 Re: [B7L] Re:Wobblevision at Nexus
	 Re: [B7L] Stock equalization
	 [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 [B7L] Re: Together Again Tapes
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 [B7L] Re: new caption picture
	 Re: [B7L] Winspit quarry trip 
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Voice (was Stock equalization)
	 [B7L] (OT) Sandbaggers
	 Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page 
	 [B7L] Re: I hope this works
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 [B7L] Better late than never
	 [B7L] Ignore previous post sent by accident
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page 
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Re. Zenith and Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Winspit quarry trip 
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Horizon
	 Re: [B7L] Stock equalization
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:58:42 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <009301bfec00$fc312ea0$f00b9ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sally replied

> Steve wrote:
> <After that, Avon only went after Blake when he needed him. At the end
> of series 4, he's known where Blake was for a long time and admits he
> would have left him where he was if things had gone right.>
>
> Well, that's what Avon says, but he's being decidedly less than frank
> and open at this point anyway ... and as I said in a loooong post not
> long ago, there's little evidence either way, but enough to make a case
that
> he/they did too search - not all the time, not obsessively, but seriously
> enough to be veeerrry noticeable to at least one outsider ...
Guess I missed that then. :-)

> And I don't need much evidence to add it to my personal canon :-)
>
> (PS - if anyone actually *wants* to hear the argument again, write to
> me not the Lyst - I'm not re-inflicting it on those who were bored with it
> the first time :-))
Great!  Could you email me the basics when you have time at
cgorman@idirect.com  ?

> <Jenna might have left him to fend for himself, and gone after Blake
> immediatly.>
> For Blake, quite possibly. For recruiting purposes, no, can't see it
> (if she would, it says something about Jenna I don't like). Although I
> have to admit, the *fanfic* idea of Jenna doing this, something
> nasty happening to Avon in the interim and Fearless Leader's reaction (he
> does *not* like his people put at risk for what he doesn't consider bloody
> good reason) is extremely appealing ...
Ohh yes, it would be interesting to see Blake's reaction to this.  I guess
its down to what order Jenna would pick people up.  Would she leave it to
Zen to work out, or head after Blake immediately?   If she had the contacts
to track him that is.

Steve Dobson.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:19:09 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000712161617.00a736a0@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 13:22 12-7-00, Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
>Getting back to B7, I love it that Servalan strolls around without so much as
>a mini-purse for necessities.  She expects the rest of the universe to
>provide her with anything she needs.  I like her style.

I've always felt that fashion designers who feel that ladies clothes don't 
need sensible pockets should be rounded up and shot. And in my personal 
canon, Servalan has done just that.

Jacqueline

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:33:30 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point
  out of  stock)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000712161936.00a7c890@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 11:28 12-7-00, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:

>Quick or slow?

Depends on how I'm feeling. When I feel good, I can write several pages a 
day. When I don't, even editing is difficult, let alone adding actual 
sentences.

>Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking?

Definitely one, with a lot of tweaking. The tweaking goes on until the very 
thought of looking at the story makes me scream, at which point I send it 
off to the editor. (All two of them, so far).

>Beginning to end, or jumping around? Outline or not?

Definitely beginning to end, although I sometimes tack ideas to the end of 
it, so that I don't forget them. Sometimes that turns into an outline. I 
never start with an outline.

>Know the end when starting, or not?

So far, not. I start with an idea I want to write something about, or a bit 
of dialogue and just see where that takes me. Then, after about a third of 
the story is done, I start thinking "uh, oh, I have absolutely no idea what 
else I'm supposed to let them do." That leads to me making up more scenes 
and some actual thought being given to such trifles as plots and endings. 
Strangely enough, I get most of the ideas for those bits when I'm in the 
bathroom. Some might think that that was the best place for them, anyway...

>Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day?

I'm not into obsessive, and setting a certain amount of time aside for 
writing makes it feel too much like work. I write strictly for fun, and I'd 
like to keep it that way. So I write whenever I feel like it. When I spend 
too much time staring at a blinking cursur in frustration, I simply give it 
up for a while. And when it goes well, I lose all track of time.

Jacqueline

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:50:41 +0100
From: "David A McIntee" <Master@allisurvey.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Wobblevision at Nexus
Message-Id: <E13CNrE-0007o7-00.2000-07-12-15-51-28@mail3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
From: Carolan <carolan7@yahoo.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Wobblevision at Nexus
Date: 11 July 2000 18:38

Judith Proctor said:
> Servalan was drawn by David McIntee (imagine a
> middle-aged man with a
> beard and a Glaswegan accent if you don't know
> David). 
>
>Er, Judith - if Dave is middle-aged at 30+, what does
>that make us??  8-)

I'm only 31, not Glaswegian and don't remember drawing anything...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:04:34 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Stock equalization
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000712170334.00a7fb80@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 11:51 11-7-00, Nyder wrote:
>For the interested, the Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane are now on
>my website (at http://redrival.com/nyder/rontane.html). Be warned though,
>it's not fanfic-- it's a gossip column.

<gurgle> and what a gossip column it is. Thanks, Fiona, this is great.

Jacqueline

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:14:26 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000712.091429.-31765.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On the basic issue of Jenna in S3, I was tossing a story idea around
involving Cally (builds up to a nice point and then has nowhere to go)
and then realized she'd need someone to talk to about it if it was ever
going to get sorted out successfully.

The problem was, there wasn't anyone on the ship I could imagine her
discussing this with.  I mean, Servalan would have been a better sounding
board as far as listening and understanding goes (followed by using it
for her own ends and getting everyone killed, not an option).

Then the discussion turned to Jenna.  The thing is, Cally could have
talked to Jenna.  Sure, I don't know that they exactly got along, but
there are some things Cally would never discuss with Dayna. For S3,
Avon's her only real sounding board and he's not exactly Mr.
Congeniality.

I'm not sure if it would have changed anything, other than to effect
general stress levels.  Jenna and Cally might have discussed things like
Auron, their feelings about Avon going after Anna's killer, what really
happened when Cally met the Thaarn, etc.

And, after hashing things over, would they then have decided to act
differently?

Scene from Terminal:

Jenna: What's with Avon?

Cally: He's been on the flight deck for 48 hours.

Jenna: OK, that's it.  Cally, this guy's going round the bend.  It's time
we did something about it.

Cally: Tarrant's trying to talk with him.

Jenna: With that and a credit, you can buy a cup of coffee.  Do you
really think Avon's going to back down from anything because _Tarrant_
asked him to?

Cally: You've got a point. [Pauses, reluctantly considering the
alternatives] All right.  You get a gun from Dayna with a stun setting. 
I'll fill a hypodermic with something to knock him out.  [Pulls out map
of bridge] Come in this way. He may see you coming, so be ready to duck. 
I'll come up behind him with the hypo.

Yep, could have been really different.

Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:53:22 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <000701bfec19$51bb9a50$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ellynne wrote:

> Scene from Terminal:

<snip>

> Yep, could have been really different.


Brilliant, Ellynne.


Una

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:21:54 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Together Again Tapes
Message-ID: <78.78223c0.269df522@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Isobel said:
>  Also I have to add, I got my first 2 Together Again tapes in the mail 
>  yesterday (Blakes Back and Liberatored) and I must say they are excellent! 
>  I'm going to have to buy the others now :o)
>  
Everyone, please remember that BOTH tapes,  Blake's Back and Liberatored, are 
available NOW  but only until the limited reprint runs out.  So if you do not 
own these first two tapes of the Together Again series by Sheelagh Wells,  
ORDER them TODAY.
Judith Proctor is taking orders for Europe and  Australia.  And, don't be 
fooled if her website still says that Liberatored is OOP,  because it isn't.  
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Sheelagh is taking orders for the UK and the USA.  For England,  it's  8.25 
pounds per tape.  For the USA,  it's $15  cash or check  per tape made out to 
Sheelagh J. Wells.  The address is  20A New Road, Brentford, Middlesex TW8  
ONX, UK.   The cost includes postage.  Sheelagh doesn't penalize Americans 
for using checks as opposed to cash.  The price is the same.

I absolutely love these first two tapes.  They are my favorites of the seven 
of them.  I urge everyone to order these two tapes NOW.  The rest of the five 
you can order anytime.  But these two are only just back in print and won't 
be for long.  Every B7 fan should own these first two tapes.  Both Sheelagh 
and Judith give fast service,  and you will be getting your tapes in less 
than a month's time.  

Joyce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:31:53 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <396C8F68.A58A6313@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ellynne wrote:

> Cally: You've got a point. [Pauses, reluctantly considering the
> alternatives] All right.  You get a gun from Dayna with a stun setting.
> I'll fill a hypodermic with something to knock him out.  [Pulls out map
> of bridge] Come in this way. He may see you coming, so be ready to duck.
> I'll come up behind him with the hypo.
>
> Yep, could have been really different.

Extremely different. From Avon's POV, they would have not only
betrayed him, but cost him his chance to find Blake. He would have
never trusted either of them again, and he would probably have
stranded them both on some remote planet ASAP.

Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
                              --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:43:04 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: new caption picture
Message-ID: <9b.7a36352.269dfa18@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith wrote:
> 
>  We've just uploaded the next picture for the caption contest.  See what 
you 
> make   >  of this one... http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

The  captions for the June contest were great.  I loved Helen's "winning" 
one,  too.   Very funny.

Joyce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:25:47 GMT
From: "Isobel Hamilton" <isobel19@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Winspit quarry trip 
Message-ID: <F370WLE1B6mbIGfbnfw000009df@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Wow... I've never thought I wanted to live in England till now! Wish I could 
come :o)

Isobel
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:18:58 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <a8.7ad755b.269e1092@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Morrigan wrote:
>  > Hell, even the "Sandbaggers" acknowledged our
>  > special relationship.
>  
Una wrote:
>  <longing sigh> If there is *anyone* out there who can help me track down
>  episodes of this, they will have my eternal gratitude.

Dana indicated (I think) that Mrs. Hudson's video shop in the Village (NYC) 
had some episodes on tape.  If I can rent them and (sshh) illegally copy 
them, I will be sure to share my ill-gotten gains. <g>  Only problem, they'd 
be NTSC not PAL.

Morrigan (Trish)
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:00:57 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <003301bfec33$95c276a0$c1249ad8@cgorman>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Morrigan wrote:
> >  > Hell, even the "Sandbaggers" acknowledged our
> >  > special relationship.
> >
> Una wrote:
> >  <longing sigh> If there is *anyone* out there who can help me track
down
> >  episodes of this, they will have my eternal gratitude.
>
Morrigan added :
> Dana indicated (I think) that Mrs. Hudson's video shop in the Village
(NYC)
> had some episodes on tape.  If I can rent them and (sshh) illegally copy
> them, I will be sure to share my ill-gotten gains. <g>  Only problem,
they'd
> be NTSC not PAL.

Over the next couple of months I'll be getting a new VCR here in Toronto,
which will play and record both PAL and NTSC tapes - very useful for all my
UK tapes!  If you need anything converted, I should be able to do them for
the postage fee and a blank tape.


Steve Dobson.

------------------------------

Date:   Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:39:26 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Voice (was Stock equalization)
Message-ID: <006001bfec38$e7bb51c0$dfed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Fiona wrote:
>Probably because we're all blocking Voice from our memories in
self-defense.

Absolutely!  I'm still trying to recover from watching it thrice for the
review.  (And after the third time it still didn't make sense.)

Marian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:38:48 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] (OT) Sandbaggers
Message-ID: <11.657cf81.269e2348@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Una & Steve,

>  Over the next couple of months I'll be getting a new VCR here in Toronto,
>  which will play and record both PAL and NTSC tapes - very useful for all my
>  UK tapes!  If you need anything converted, I should be able to do them for
>  the postage fee and a blank tape.

Mrs. Hudson's confirms that they have the whole Sandbaggers series.  I'm away 
this weekend but will venture down next week and rent the things.  Most video 
stories have set the tapes to prevent them from being copied, but I'd like to 
watch it again anyway.

Amazon.com sells "Sandbaggers Set 1" (6 tapes - 1979) and "Sandbaggers Set 2" 
(6 tapes - 1980) both in NTSC format only.  The first set is US $69.98 and 
the second  US $79.99.

According to Amazon, it was Bfs Entertainment & Multimedia that released Set 
1 on October 15, 1998 and Set 2 on February 8, 2000.  Bfs is, of course, the 
same company that distributes the B7 videos (under licence from the BBC) 
currently available on Amazon.com (NTSC format).

I don't have a method of contacting BFS.  All that there is on the B7 tapes is

BFS LIMITED*Richmond Hill*Ontario*Canada

I don't know if they also distributed a PAL version of Sandbaggers.  You may 
want to try to contact them.
 
Morrigan (Trish)
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

------------------------------

Date:   Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:02:20 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page 
Message-ID: <006301bfec3c$1859e280$dfed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To my:
>> I too find it much easier to rewrite what's already there so at first I
just keep on writing even though I know it's bad.  On going over it again
and again I gradually adjust it until I'm satisfied.<<

Steve Kilbane wrote:
>Oo, [envy]. I find it very difficult to edit. Away from the page, it's ok -
I know what I want to write, what its texture is. Once I read what I've
already written, that tends to take over, and I lose what I had in my head.
The best way to describe it is that the existing story has momentum, and it
takes effort to steer it in the direction I want it to go.<

I didn't make myself clear (as usual).  The plotline is never the problem
for me, I have that already worked out in my head before I start writing.
My problem is finding the right words, especially in English. :-)  That's
what the editing is all about, I start by saying things badly and gradually,
on going over it again and again, I usually come up with the correct
expression.  And I am infinitely grateful to editors who take the trouble to
weed out the remaining errors.  (Thank you, Judith and Andrew.)

Marian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: rpdavies@excite.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <20334065.963434559973.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Merchandise: Scorpio attack was the last of the script based novels, & was
written by Trevor Hoyle.  The last time I can remember seeing this & the
other novels was in 1995 when Waterstones had a shelf full along with almost
all the Target Dr Who novels. (Even some with the neon logo.)  Around this
time HMV was selling the 1991 BBC videos with the banner "Last Chance To
Buy", suggesting the range was being phased out then.

Any news on if & when the BBC are planning to show season 2?

Space Fall nit explained: One thing about this episode which has puzzled
some people is how The System are fighting a battle in Federation space. 
It's possible that either the London was passing through free space to get
to Cygnus Alpha, or the battle just happened to drift into Federation space,
like at the battle of the River Plate, where the German ship the Graff Spree
was chased by the Royal Navy up the River Plate, which sperates Uruguay &
Argentina.  One thing still unclear is who The System where fighting
against?  Where the Andromedens launching a raid before the invasion? 
Talking of which, how close did the Daleks become to being the invaders? 
Did someone in the Dr Who production team veto this idea?

Richard Davies






_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:33:10 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000712213310.3115.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

After Ellyne's brilliant little Terminal-with-Jenna scene, Mistral wrote:

<From Avon's POV, they would have not only betrayed him, but cost him his 
chance to find Blake. He would have never trusted either of them again, and 
he would probably have stranded them both on some remote planet ASAP.>

Ooooh, the *next* bit - when Avon woke up and told these two exactly *what* 
they'd just (IN-not-at-all-HO) screwed up, then went looking for one of 
Dayna's guns without a stun setting, probably - would be *fascinating*.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:40:59 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <17.8259bab.269e3feb@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>  After Ellyne's brilliant little Terminal-with-Jenna scene, Mistral wrote:
>  
>  <From Avon's POV, they would have not only betrayed him, but cost him his 
>  chance to find Blake. He would have never trusted either of them again, 
and 
>  he would probably have stranded them both on some remote planet ASAP.>
>  
Sally added:
>  Ooooh, the *next* bit - when Avon woke up and told these two exactly 
*what* 
>  they'd just (IN-not-at-all-HO) screwed up, then went looking for one of 
>  Dayna's guns without a stun setting, probably - would be *fascinating*.

OTOH, since there is no way in hell that Jenna would have flown Liberator 
through that destructive goo, Liberator would have arrived at Terminal 
probably about the time Avon awoke.  And then what happened? ...  (calling 
fanfic writers...my plate is overly full right now)

Morrigan (Trish)
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:54:28 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000712215428.55859.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Trish wrote:
<OTOH, since there is no way in hell that Jenna would have flown Liberator 
through that destructive goo, Liberator would have arrived at Terminal 
probably about the time Avon awoke.>

Depending on whether they stunned him before or after he got the final 
coordinates, and whether or not they decided then to *go* to the coordinates 
(it'd be more fun IMHO if Jenna persuaded Cally *not* to on the grounds that 
if Avon was Up To Something. This is purely because I'm into angst and Jenna 
doesn't get her share).


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:58:22 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <97.8033131.269e43fe@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>  Trish wrote:
>  <OTOH, since there is no way in hell that Jenna would have flown Liberator 
>  through that destructive goo, Liberator would have arrived at Terminal 
>  probably about the time Avon awoke.>
>  
>  Depending on whether they stunned him before or after he got the final 
>  coordinates, and whether or not they decided then to *go* to the 
coordinates 
> 
>  (it'd be more fun IMHO if Jenna persuaded Cally *not* to on the grounds 
that 
> 
>  if Avon was Up To Something. This is purely because I'm into angst and 
Jenna 
> 
>  doesn't get her share).

Slavering after Blake for 2 seasons and apparently without success doesn't 
count as angst?

Morrigan (Trish)
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:42:09 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Better late than never
Message-ID: <20000713024209.86662.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Murray may be sorry after this that he mentioned this actual hotel a few 
weeks back. Been working on this to keep my mind off other things. Wasn't 
working, people, but here goes:

Hotel Terra Nostra
(tune: Hotel California)

Dark day in the spacelanes
Got a gun near at hand
Pale glow for the moon discs
Coming up off the sand
Up above in the night sky
Is a palace of light
It can bring you low, it can bring you down
But some'll stay there and fight
And they stood by the window
They had to wait for some time
The big man made it obvious
That they weren't there for crime
Their escape then was taken
And they took them away
There were voices rising from the floor
They did clearly say

Welcome to the Hotel Terra Nostra
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
With some lovely plants
You'll love it here at the Hotel Terra Nostra
Oh you know it well (oh you know it well)
Has a kind of spell

They all live 'round the edges
Shadow in their veins
There's a lot of really big, big boys
Just to clear up the stains











Welcome to the Hotel Terra Nostra
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
With such lovely plants
Raking it in at the Hotel Terra Nostra
All of their supplies (all of their supplies)
Make a nasty prize

Spiders in a fishtank
Waiting for their prey
They'll remind you of something
In that awful display




Last thing that she knew of
She was running to that block
But she could not find a way to undo the lock
Relax said the computer
I am programmed to deceive
I'm arriving from another world
So you can never leave


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:43:48 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Ignore previous post sent by accident
Message-ID: <20000713024348.23590.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Stress makes you careless, doesn't it?

Regards
Joanne

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:10:22 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: B7Morrigan@aol.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000713041022.40681.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

After I wrote:
<I'm into angst and Jenna doesn't get her share).>

Trish objected:
<Slavering after Blake for 2 seasons and apparently without success doesn't 
count as angst?>

<g> I stand corrected ...


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:53:34 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000712.225336.-85859.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:10:22 PDT "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
writes:
> After I wrote:
> <I'm into angst and Jenna doesn't get her share).>
> 
> Trish objected:
> <Slavering after Blake for 2 seasons and apparently without success 
> doesn't 
> count as angst?>
> 
> <g> I stand corrected ...
> 
Not quite agreeing.  There wasn't enough obvious frustration for angst. 
Jenna's just not angst prone, I think.  It's like that (I know your all
going to love this) personality test thing where people are reds, blues,
whites, or yellows.  Someone who was into this said blues are the people
who remember everything that went wrong their first day of kindergarten
and are still rehashing it in their minds.  Whites don't care because
they don't care.  Yellows don't care because they laughed it off.  Reds
don't care because they got even.

Jenna's a red.  I don't know how that means she dealt with Blake.  But,
with Avon, she probably beat him to a pulp for not telling them he was
looking for Blake and then trying to tell her it's her fault things went
wrong (some may doubt Jenna would win in a normal, beating-to-a-pulp
contest with Avon, these nay-sayers are assuming Jenna controlled her
temper long enough for Avon to fully recover from either the drugs or the
stun gun).

As for Avon, although I have some sympathy for his feeling betrayed
(again), I must point out that trust is a two way street and its about
time Avon learned this fact.  If his inability to grasp the concept blows
up in his face once in a while, well, it was a bomb of his own making.
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:40:04 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000201bfec92$44571000$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From: <B7Morrigan@aol.com>
>Hell, even the "Sandbaggers" acknowledged our
> special relationship.  It's why France doesn't like us; they're jealous
<g>

Oh.  I thought it was because they won your Revolution for you and you've
never acknowledged it:)

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:19:11 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000713061911.80629.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I've been thinking about the Jenna-at-Terminal scene, and have come up with 
a rather surprising (to me! <g>) conclusion. IMO, Avon actually *would have 
told Jenna* about the messages.

Not necessarily because he thought she had more right to know than Vila or 
Cally (I still think that he considered Blake's safety more his business 
than theirs, as unreasonable as that may be). Mainly because part - a large 
part - of the reason he kept it secret was to protect the others if it was a 
trap. And, even though he doesn't care for Jenna personally, I do think he 
would not feel he has to protect *her* in the same way. She's probably the 
only one (except maybe Soolin - I'm now considering where Soolin fits) that 
he felt could/should take the risk for herself.

But he'd insist *she* kept it from the others as he did.

Does this make any sense?





>From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
>To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
>Subject: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:53:34 -0600
>
>
>
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:10:22 PDT "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
>writes:
> > After I wrote:
> > <I'm into angst and Jenna doesn't get her share).>
> >
> > Trish objected:
> > <Slavering after Blake for 2 seasons and apparently without success
> > doesn't
> > count as angst?>
> >
> > <g> I stand corrected ...
> >
>Not quite agreeing.  There wasn't enough obvious frustration for angst.
>Jenna's just not angst prone, I think.  It's like that (I know your all
>going to love this) personality test thing where people are reds, blues,
>whites, or yellows.  Someone who was into this said blues are the people
>who remember everything that went wrong their first day of kindergarten
>and are still rehashing it in their minds.  Whites don't care because
>they don't care.  Yellows don't care because they laughed it off.  Reds
>don't care because they got even.
>
>Jenna's a red.  I don't know how that means she dealt with Blake.  But,
>with Avon, she probably beat him to a pulp for not telling them he was
>looking for Blake and then trying to tell her it's her fault things went
>wrong (some may doubt Jenna would win in a normal, beating-to-a-pulp
>contest with Avon, these nay-sayers are assuming Jenna controlled her
>temper long enough for Avon to fully recover from either the drugs or the
>stun gun).
>
>As for Avon, although I have some sympathy for his feeling betrayed
>(again), I must point out that trust is a two way street and its about
>time Avon learned this fact.  If his inability to grasp the concept blows
>up in his face once in a while, well, it was a bomb of his own making.
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:01:33 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <396D5B3C.FEEBBD89@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sally wrote:

> I've been thinking about the Jenna-at-Terminal scene, and have come up with
> a rather surprising (to me! <g>) conclusion. IMO, Avon actually *would have
> told Jenna* about the messages.
>
> Not necessarily because he thought she had more right to know than Vila or
> Cally (I still think that he considered Blake's safety more his business
> than theirs, as unreasonable as that may be). Mainly because part - a large
> part - of the reason he kept it secret was to protect the others if it was a
> trap. And, even though he doesn't care for Jenna personally, I do think he
> would not feel he has to protect *her* in the same way. She's probably the
> only one (except maybe Soolin - I'm now considering where Soolin fits) that
> he felt could/should take the risk for herself.
>
> But he'd insist *she* kept it from the others as he did.
>
> Does this make any sense?

Yes. In fact, you just beat me saying largely the same thing. With
some additional reasons: Avon knows that Jenna cares about Blake,
and her loyalty, like his, is personal. Of Liberator crew, her thought
processes are closer to his (as are Soolin's of Scorpio crew) and so
is her background. Jenna is the only one he could trust to back him
in this situation, to understand the need for secrecy and precision.
She would no more risk Blake than he would. (Soolin is more iffy,
IMO so close that the choice might depend on how Avon was
feeling when he made it. He'd trust her competence, but she has
no personal loyalty to Blake.)

Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
                              --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:52:10 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page 
Message-Id: <200007130652.HAA25667@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Marian:
> I didn't make myself clear (as usual).

Not at all. You were clear, which I guess means I wasn't. :-)

> The plotline is never the problem
> for me, I have that already worked out in my head before I start writing.
> My problem is finding the right words, especially in English. :-)

Same here. Except that sometimes, I've got a scene that doesn't achieve
what I want: it moves the plot along, but it's not convincing enough, or
doesn't have the right tone, so I need to revise it. I have a clear
idea of how to revise it, while away from the page (down to the words to
type), but sometimes I forget that while reading through the existing version.

It's like trying to remember one piece of music, while listening to
another.

steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:46:11 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <396D73C2.9910B957@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ellynne wrote:

> As for Avon, although I have some sympathy for his feeling betrayed
> (again), I must point out that trust is a two way street and its about
> time Avon learned this fact.  If his inability to grasp the concept blows
> up in his face once in a while, well, it was a bomb of his own making.

If you're suggesting that he ought to trust them with the plan, rather
than them trusting his intentions and plans, that is equally one-way.

IMO Avon is *well* aware that trust has to work both ways; he just
puts a rather higher premium on it than the others do. Some people
trust others automatically, until they are betrayed (ooh, I feel an Auron
proverb hovering nearby!) while others believe trust must be earned.
Avon is one of the latter.

Someone (Sally, I believe) has pointed out in the past that Avon does
not really want others to trust him, and I agree. IMO again this is
because he knows the price of trust; trust implies responsibility. In
Terminal he is asking for trust *on this one occasion*. He believes
he's earned that much trust, and he's willing to spend it all on Blake.
And he's made an effort to live up to the corresponding responsibility
by programming the Liberator to take them away from Terminal if
something goes wrong, both for their safety, and to keep the ship
from Servalan. IOW, he's done everything possible to live up to the
trust he's asked for. (Mind you, saving Blake would be worth never
being trusted again.)

Avon clearly believes that telling the others what is going on would
risk not only their lives, but Blake's if the messages are real, and
the Liberator if it's a trap. Which makes telling the others nothing
short of idiotic. So you're in effect suggesting (1) that the others
deserve to be trusted, but Avon does not; and (2) that the others'
feelings are more important than Blake's life. Um. No, I don't
think Avon has failed to grasp any concepts.

Besides which, (IMHO only), if Avon says to you 'try trusting me
for once', the most effective answer isn't 'well, you should trust me!'
(unless of course you happen to be Roj Blake, in which case just
about any answer will do), it's 'I do trust you. Let me help.' The
problem isn't that Avon doesn't understand trust; it's that the others
don't.

Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
                              --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:04:03 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Isobel Hamilton" <isobel19@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re. Zenith and Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <007501bfec9e$0e5802a0$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Isobel

> hmmm not sure about that myself. Despite all the divisions in the crew I
> doubt any of them would have left another stranded after the evacuation.

Likewise and especially not Jenna-- she struck me as a very ethical sort,
not one to leave anyone hanging, even Avon.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:51:12 +0930
From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
To: "Isobel Hamilton" <isobel19@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Winspit quarry trip 
Message-ID: <00c501bfecab$b0b555e0$67af3acb@marina>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Isobel wrote:

>Wow... I've never thought I wanted to live in England till now! Wish I
could
>come :o)
>


Meeeeeee toooooooooo! :(

Min. xxx

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:24:38 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <007b01bfec9e$1348f6c0$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<new version of Terminal snipped>

Hilarious, Elynne, as always. Now I'm picturing J and C teleporting down
preemptively and having a good sharp word with Anna Grant before she does
any real damage... or, vice versa, Cally urging everyone to answer the
distress call from Auron and Jenna saying "hang on, doesn't this look a tiny
bit like a trap, just maybe?"


Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:20:27 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
        <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <007901bfec9e$1172fe40$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Una wrote,

> Carol wrote:
> 
> > Sorry to be off topic, but this reminds me of the mind-boggling (to me)
> > question of what can't-be-without-them items are inside the Queen's
> handbag
> > (that I've seen hanging from her arm in many a picture)?
> >
> > pics of the grandkids to show people she might meet what they look like
> 
> So that'll be some stamps <g>

No, it'll be a copy of the Daily Mail <gg>.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:10:05 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <B7Morrigan@aol.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon
Message-ID: <007601bfec9e$0efe54c0$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Morrigan--

> You know, with the imaginations we apply to fanfic, we could probably make
a
> fortune as consultants to companies that merge and require new names (and
do
> a better job than most)

Oh, what a lovely idea. The problem is that the temptation for some of them
might be a little strong: who could resist the opportunity to name a
computer company Ensor Ltd., or a drug company Shadow... or, switching
programmes, calling an oil company Mogul, a power plant Northmoor Nuclear
Fuels, or a scientific organisation the British Rocket Group?

Stop me before I kill again,

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:21:41 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Jacqueline Thijsen" <inquisitioner@wish.net>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Stock equalization
Message-ID: <007a01bfec9e$12565960$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jacqueline,

> At 11:51 11-7-00, Nyder wrote:
> >For the interested, the Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane are now
on
> >my website (at http://redrival.com/nyder/rontane.html). Be warned though,
> >it's not fanfic-- it's a gossip column.
>
> <gurgle> and what a gossip column it is. Thanks, Fiona, this is great.
>

Cheers. I'm trying to think up a section for Lysator, but it needs a
narrative thread (and one which won't get me lynched, she says, thinking of
an earlier debate...)

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:17:23 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <B7Morrigan@aol.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <007801bfec9e$109a5180$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Anyway, Gnog, there is always a necessity for the child to toss off the

There's a wicked transatlantic pun opportunity here which I'm passing up....

>.  Staying tied to one's mother (actual or country) for too long does
> not usually have salutary effects on either.

Hasn't hurt the Australians, or the Kiwis, or... no, hang on, the Canadians
are debatable... but still, economically Canada's fine; check the UN stats
on standards of living.

> , come to your defence,

Ahem! No, no, I'm not going to say it <G>. But I have just seen "Chicken
Run" and found it very amusing.


Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:13:50 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <007701bfec9e$0fc7bf40$4b1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Penny

> Yeah, me too. "...she ain't no human bein'..." (but without her we'd be
> forced to put Chretien's face on all our coins)

Penny's a Canuck? Gosh.

> Are there faces on the money in the far-flung future of B7? And if so, how
> many people did Sleer have to kill because they looked down at the cash
she
> was handing them to buy slaves or whatever and then looked at *her* and
> said Hmm, you know, you look very familiar...

Don't know about that-- if I met the Queen I doubt I'd recognise her by
resemblance to her picture on my loose change (even the new ones which
supposedly look more like she does now).

I think Sleer would pay by credit card, myself.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #199
**************************************