From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #103 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/103 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 103 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) [B7L] Phoenix 4 now available!! [B7L] Re Diva's comments Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news [B7L] Guards! Guards! Info ????? Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Re: [B7L] Standard Speeds (an answer.. kind of) Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Re: [B7L] "Deliverance" Convention Re: [B7L] Heavy drinking and sleep deprivation - the key to a great weekend. Re: [B7L] Standard Speeds (an answer.. kind of) [B7L] Deliverance costume exhibit Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) Re: [B7L] Deliverance - ConCom View [B7L] Elements [B7L] Elements Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) Re: [B7L] Re Diva's comments Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Re: [B7L] brazilian GP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 98 23:43 BST-1 From: lucydennis@cix.compulink.co.uk (Dennis Collin) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Hi everyone, I’ve just joined this list in the aftermath of Deliverance, and have been somewhat puzzled by Kathryn Andersen’s rather negative comments about its organisation. I’ve been to a fair number of conventions, and this one ran more smoothly than many of them. Anyone who’s ever worked behind the scenes of a con knows that, no matter how much organisation has been put in in advance, the actual days of the con will consist of a series of problems to solve. It is whether and how they are solved that makes or breaks the convention. Conventions are not like businesses, where the day to day running allows processes to develop and thereby smooth the way, they are one-off or infrequent events, and nobody can anticipate most of the problems that are going to occur. As an events manager, I got to see a lot of the problems first hand (I also got to miss most of the panels, but that’s what happens if you’re idiot enough to volunteer to help!), and I know that most of them were sorted out to the best of everyone’s ability. The stewards I worked with and came across were very helpful, both to the attendees and to the other staff they were working with. I’d just like to respond to a few of Kathryn’s comments: >We also asked about the fancy dress entry, but nobody had any forms, and we >had other questions, but nobody knew any answers. However somebody >did know *who* was supposed to know, so she wrote down our questions >with a promise to ask them as soon as she could track down said >person. When we got to the dealers room after breakfast, she tracked >us down with the forms, but without the answers. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Somebody ‘owned’ the problem and did everything they could to sort it out. How can this be bad organisation? >The same kind of thing happened for the fancy dress later on - even >though we'd already filled out entry forms, we had to give the same >information again on the order sheets. Ruddy inefficient. With the >fancy dress it was understandable, but the art show had *required* you >to have your entry forms in by the 28th of February! They had all >that information already - what were they doing with it all that time, >eh? I’m sorry, but this is just insulting. As I’ve said, a convention is not a business. Almost everyone working on it has full time jobs, and complaining about having to fill in forms twice is just being mind numbingly nitpicking. >At 11:30 I went up to where the autographs were going to be, and a >queue was already forming. I stood in line with Mary and chatted... >for a long long time. The previous panel ran overtime - of course. >(Why am I not surprised?) Presumably you are not surprised because a convention is a fairly relaxed event, and no one really cares if an event overruns by a few minutes? >We eventually got into the room and were sat in seats, and waited even longer. Having stood in 3 hour+ autograph queues at other conventions, I thought being able to sit down and listen to the guests while you were waiting was a great idea. Autographs are always a nightmare, but I felt that every effort was made at Deliverance to ensure that most people got most of the autographs that they wanted, and that the system was fair. Don’t forget that an extra session was set up in the main hall on the Sunday evening for just this reason. >I would get them all to sign my Deliverance "souvenir brochure" (what a ghastly >name - makes it sound like a commercial enterprise) I think most people were just impressed with the professional appearance of the brochure. > We were also wise enough to save ourselves seats in the >main hall, (with the co-operation of someone's husband) to sit for the >cabaret which was after the fancy dress. The organisers had not given >it a thought, even though it should have been obvious that fancy-dress >participants wouldn't have the opportunity to find any seats since >they were in the fancy dress! A convention runs partly on the goodwill of the attendees, which includes telling the staff if they think that there is a problem. All you had to do was to mention this idea and somebody would have sorted it out. >This con had again cabaret seating, which I *still* think is a bad idea, because >there is so many *fewer* seats. A debatable point. Most people like to drink in the evening, in which case tables are the best idea. >I think it was a mistake to have the judges up on the stage, not just because of >those dumb spotlights, but because it meant that they saw the back of the >acts, they couldn't see what the audience saw. Unless of course the >acts played to the judges, in which case the audience couldn't see >what the judges saw. Normally the judges sit at the front of the >audience. I think the reason they were put up on the stage was >because the organisers couldn't bear not to use the stage in *some* >way, after they had decided not to use it for the fancy dress acts >because it could be dangerous for some of the more awkward costumes to >be walking up and down those steps without stumbling - and because the >dance-floor gave more room to manouvre. You’ve pretty much answered your own question here. You’ve already complained that there wasn’t enough room in the hall - there would have been even less if the guests had been sitting down there too. Plus it meant that the attendees could see the guests and their reactions. >Then the usual thank-yous of people involved in the con (though I >can't recall that the Stewards were thanked at all). They definitely were, I remember it distinctly. >One disturbing thing was the way Diane Gies referred to the guests as "my >guests" --excuse me? Was there no-one else involved in this con but her? Well, it was pretty late in the weekend, so picking holes in Diane’s precise words seems a bit uncharitable. >chance in a million of coming first in competition with colour work, >but we did have some wondering hope of coming second or third, or of >coming first if there had been more than one category - but there >wasn't. So why did we bother? I'm certainly never going to do it >again. Not with this concom anyway, who were such fussbudgets about >the art in the first place. Again, if you have a problem with they way something is run, make it clear and make a suggestion. No point in ‘armchair quarterbacking’ after the event. >One could argue that Deliverance was >doomed from the start, what with so many guests and so many attendees, >that it passed a kind of critical mass after which it is impossible >for things to go right, but there were still things that could have >been reasonably expected to be better organized. Deliverance didn’t feel ‘doomed’ to me, nor to friends who were not even slightly involved in the organisation and had a wonderful time. A little bit of tolerance and understanding goes a long way and really increases one’s enjoyment. >The secret of >circumventing Murphy's Law is to anticipate potential problems and >plan for them. You mean like being psychic? >Certainly it makes me think twice about attending any >Media convention which has more than four major guests, whoever is >organizing it. I’ve been to a convention with two guests and about 30 attendees and the organisation was utter pants. So, you never can tell. Anyway, as I’ve already said, I really enjoyed Deliverance and so did most of the people I’ve since spoken to. I joined this mailing list looking forward to chatting about it, so I really hope that there are some people out there who feel the same. Lucy “Never assume anything Gisburne, except an occasional air of intelligence.” Sheriff of Nottingham, Robin of Sherwood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:05:01 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Phoenix 4 now available!! Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980406090501.007a5ba0@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last night I finished doing the little bits and pieces that were waiting on Phoenix 4, and the stories are now online at: http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax ...follow the Blake's 7 links. As usual, please read the stories in order or it will give things away and otherwise be very confusing. :-) I have no objections to anyone printing out these stories to read or to pass on to friends to read. I'd be inordinatley chuffed if they wanted to read it. :-) Narrelle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:18:51 +0100 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re Diva's comments Message-Id: <49876075MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> I would just like to say that as someone who really enjoyed Deliverance and as a member of the committee that is running Redemption next year, I was more than a little upset at Diva's comments about Redemption. While I have no problem with him or her disagreeing with Kathryn Andersen's view of the convention (you both had valid points), I don't see why this should be used as an excuse to attack Redemption. What Diva actually said was: "But then Kathryn neglected to mention her own interest in all this, namely that her friend Ms Proctor is organizing the Redemption con which will no doubt be perfect in all respects thanks to Kathryn's omniscience. This con is being run by a different committee although they are currently using the slogan "After Deliverance comes Redemption" which I think is pretty cheeky of them, particularly in the light of Kathryn's (endless) criticism." Kathryn's contribution to Redemption was to provide the excellent Liberator vs Shadow artwork that we are using, for which we are extremely grateful. I am sure we will make mistakes at Redemption, we are only human in the same way the people who organised Deliverance are. They did a great job overall and I for one am really grateful for the hard work they put in so that myself and the other 749 B7 fans could have an excellent weekend. We will also strive to make Redemption as much fun as we can for our members. As to the slogan "After Deliverance tis time to seek Redemption", that was my idea and it was done as a joke. And in fact one of the people helping organise Deliverance complimented us on it. I'm sorry if it offended you. cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ "The workers united will never be ignited" Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:11:07 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Judith Proctor" , "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Message-Id: <199804052316.AAA18536@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Do I get to see 'The First Casualty' before Redemption? Be nice to be > able to sell it at the con . Probably. > Who wouldn't! (All I need to do is to convince Brian Lighthill that an ability > to write fanfic compensates for my total lack of radio experience.... Somehow, > though, I don't think he'll go for it) Or that a track record in other Sf shows compensates for my lack of radio experience. (and let's face it, barry does have radio experience and still screwed up) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay McGuigan To: space-city@world.std.com, Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Guards! Guards! Info ????? Message-ID: <19980406004505.13339.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a quick question, I'm going to be traveling to England this summer and was wondering if Guards! Guards! will still be touring. If so, where? I will be in England from mid-June to mid-August. Thanks in advance Jay 100% Avon == **************************************************** Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for. If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame. Check out my homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/4518 **************************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:30:42 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dangermouse: > >I fear this means we'll end up with just as bad a script, but with more > >fanwank references in it... Reuben: > What a terrible prospect, what they really should do is round up the > bloke that wrote the recent Doctorless Doctor Who novel, Face of the > Enemy. Seems to me he could probably do a pretty good PGP story ;-) Crawl, man, crawl. Only another ten miles to Alex. You can make it. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:28:41 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Standard Speeds (an answer.. kind of) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill out-smart-assed-me: >> Except that we all accept that TD2 was definately >> a lot faster than light, and at the speed of light, no time passes so >> you need an infinite distortion, so that doesn't work, because you'd >> start getting into negative time, because at faster-than-light >> speeds, time goes backwards. Hmmmm. > > Well, no actually. If v becomes greater than c, the solution to the > equation becomes imaginary, not negative. Bottom. I did know that. Honest I did. Spong. > The other solution: > The Liberator's speed system is actually a really strange and > inconsistent scale created by a drunk scientist called Stan Dardby. I thought everybody knew that. After all, the original title was not "Blakes 7", it was "Dardbys 4", and the speed nomenclature gubbins was just a production in-joke. Tom Forsyth. P.S. Now you're calling yourself "Bill", while I've always thought you were "William", there's some sort of composite entity in my head called "Wibill" who ... er ... wibbles. Scary but true. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:54:45 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colin Gate wrote: > From what I remember of this discussion, he also said it was impossible > to get the 'Seven Fold Crown' proof read at all as the BBC retain a full > copyright until the release date of the tape (i.e. They will not let > anyone outside the BBC even read it). However, Jenni brought forward > the point about the mythical nature of the story not being in keeping > with the series at deliverance and, apart from her praise for his > efforts to exhume the series, probably had more impact than any other > comment. I am thoroughly looking forward to the next tape in spite of > the 'Seven Fold Crown'. Yes, I didn't get this. What's so hard about getting someone like, well, any of the Judiths to read the script, pay them a tenner and call them a "consultant"? Bingo - they work for the BBC. Problem solved. They'd be quite happy to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement or the equivalent, I'm sure. The same would be true of the next one. Not the best excuse in the world, Mr. Lighthill. 3/10 for effort. Dangermouse later said: > B) I reckon they should get Chris Boucher to do it - he is *the* > Blake's 7 writer, after all. I do hope at least one person managed to whisper CB's name to BL. BL could do far far worse (and indeed already has) than ask CB, and I don't imagine CB would say no without a very good excuse. There's surely no problem with him becoming a BBC person again for a short while, and there might be a small danger of the characters not only being decent but also recognisable! BL seemed to be in a state of shock at the con, suddenly realising that he had to stand up in front of 700-odd raving fans and apologise. Many times. I'm sure a word from one of said fans would influence him deeply! Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:28:18 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] "Deliverance" Convention Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Rolls asked: > Hi All. > > As one of the trio who organised the "Deliverance" convention in Stoke > last weekend, I'd be interested to hear any comments and/or complaints > (be gentle!). I can attempt to answer any questions anyone has (ie Why > were things moved/cancelled) about the way the convention was > organised and run. > That's about all for now as I'm still too tired to think straight. Hope > all attending had a good weekend. Well I had a lovely time, and after Wolf 359 last year, these queues were mere reading-time (visit dealers room, pick up wodge of zines, join queue, read zines) rather than particularly annoying. I can't take too much actual "activity" in one day anyway due to excessive brain-boggle. The one major gripe (and it's only a tiny major one, rather than a big major one) was that the program could have had little stars by the items that you needed a ticket for, with a note at the bottom saying "you need a ticket for this". The result was that those who spotted the bit about needing tickets weren't sure what they needed them for and went to the front desk asking for non-existant tickets half the time, and those that didn't got rather annoyed by having stood in a queue only to be told they needed tickets. I understand the whole system was abandoned by Sunday, though. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:57:38 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Heavy drinking and sleep deprivation - the key to a great weekend. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn wrote: > Oh, and if you want to know, the pronunciation is "Ca-leh" - more or > less. Probably less than more! No, I made *no* attempt at "Dybedahl"! This really needs to be put in the FAQ, you know! Maybe Calle should bung us a .wav file of him saying it. Several times. Slowly. Then we can all feel really really stupid when we get it wrong because we have no conceivable excuse. Like me when Una caught me saying her name wrong despite repeated instructions from Louise beforehand. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:31:42 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Standard Speeds (an answer.. kind of) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980406123142.006b36dc@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:28 6/04/98 +0100, Tom wrote: > >P.S. Now you're calling yourself "Bill", while I've always thought you were >"William", there's some sort of composite entity in my head called "Wibill" >who ... er ... wibbles. Scary but true. > Well, it's all because I've left uni and started work. My new sysadmin thinks of me as Bill, so that's the way he set it up (the old sysadmin went off my student card which had 'William'). Besides, with a surname like Billingsley, being called "Bill" is rather difficult to avoid. :-) I'll try not to wibble to much. (Or babble.) -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 03:08:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com To: space-city@world.std.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Deliverance costume exhibit Message-Id: <199804060326.DAA27463@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An aspect of Deliverance that no one has said much about so far, and that I enjoyed enormously, was the exhibition of models, props, and costumes. It was such a thrill to see the actual items! There was even a nicely written and printed exhibition catalogue. My roommate, Vickie McManus, said that she was buying the catalog because it would be such fun to put it on the shelf next to all her scholarly catalogues of archaeological exhibitions. I had the impression-- but I can't think where I got it, because nothing is said in the catalogue and I can't remember anyone telling me-- that the items displayed are now the property of a private collector, who kindly consented to show them to con-goers. If so I am most deeply grateful. The person who wrote the catalogue, and who was acting as a kind of curator on several occasions when I visited the exhibition (it was well worth going back to repeatedly), was Rob Emery. He was very nice about bringing costumes from the racks in the back up to the front of the exhibition space so that we could see them and in some cases-- at his invitation-- even touch them. I saw the actual Liberator! I'm afraid I didn't recognize it at first, because the poor thing is still dismembered and slimed up from "Terminal." Also, it was a bit smaller than I imagined. Orac is in pretty sad shape, too. I thought his shape seemed wrong-- too tall and too narrow-- until someone (Wendy Duffield, I think) pointed out to me that he was turned on his side. Sure enough, there was the square for the key on the side facing us, which must therefore have been the top. I didn't pay much attention to the guns, displayed in glass cases (though I wish now that I had looked more closely at "the gun that killed Blake"), but I certainly did drool over the costumes. The most interesting revelation was that Avon's original leather'n'studs outfit, seen in Redemption and later worn by Tarrant, was not black but midnight blue! When Rob told us this he was standing next to it wearing a black T-shirt, so we could clearly see what he was talking about. He also pointed out that the original wearer was so slim in those days that the costume could not be completely fastened when displayed on a standard-sized male mannequin! (There are snaps under the studs, and the rest of it fastens with Velcro.) On either side of the studded tunic were Avon's silver leather tunic, which was later somewhat altered so that it looks a little different now, and Jenna's burgundy leather jacket, which looks just the same and is in beautiful condition, almost like new. Cally's black-and-gray costume from Dawn of the Gods is very pretty but showing its age; the gray fabric was a fake suede that is starting to fall apart. Appropriately enough, Avon's silver parka from Deliverance was there, a little battered but still very attractive. The black trim is wide-wale corduroy (the wales are vertical), and the silver part looks as if it might be leather, but when you touch it (as I did, with permission), it's clearly synthetic. The hood is lined with real rabbit fur, very soft and nice, and still in good condition. Oh, and the red leather lobster suit was there! But it was rather less interesting-looking without its contents :). Rob pointed out the little stitch holes around the collar where the spikes that originally decorated it had been removed because someone decided they were just too, too much. Dorian's burgundy jacket with gold trim was one of the prettiest male costumes on display, I thought. I always liked that outfit a lot. Rob showed us (well, strictly speaking, he showed Nancy Dziergowski, and I eavesdropped, having come in at just the right time) one of Dayna's fourth-season costumes; it originally included not only the jumpsuit that we saw in Power but also a separate vest (the same kind of design as Avon's two black fourth-season costumes; the top layer of those is not a jacket but a sleeveless vest), which, however, was never worn in the show because it proved too warm. If only I had looked more carefully at the catalogue at the time, I would have known that there was a Tarrant costume of the same vintage and design, also with a never-worn vest or jacket; but alas, I didn't know to ask for it. It must have been on one of the less-visible racks in the back, along with Avon's jumpsuit from Warlord, which I would also have loved to see if only I had realized it was there. I did, however, get to admire Avon's black costume from Sand, as well as Soolin's lovely gray jumpsuit with the blue and purple beading. I noted with interest that both of those costumes had stirrups attached to the trouser hems, presumably to keep them from pulling out of the boots during action scenes. Now we know how they managed that! Another little secret, pointed out by Rob, was the underwire bra sewn into the bodice of Servalan's red Gambit dress. The ruff that accompanied it has, alas, vanished over the years. This was one of at least three costumes that could be seen at the con both in the original, and in a replica modeled by a fan. Dave Walsh wore a stunning copy of the red dress (presumably without the underwiring!) for his cabaret routine. Servalan's white velvet cowl dress, also in the exhibition, was skillfully copied by Mary O'Connor for an impressive entry in the masquerade. And Jenna's beautifully draped dark blue gown, which she wears when she saves the day in Pressure Point, was modelled in replica by Jenni. The true irony was that Jenni's version looked more like what we saw on the show than the actual dress did, since it had subsequently had its trim altered! In addition to the items on display, one wall of the room was covered with interesting unpublished photos. Some of these appeared to be outtakes from various publicity shots. It was worth taking the trouble to squint at those contact sheets. I particularly liked a photo of Josette and Jackie, in costume, laughing together as Dayna and Servalan would never have done. I assume that there were probably some copies of the exhibition catalogue left over, so it might be possible to obtain them through Horizon. If so, it would be well worth it for those who are interested in such things. I see I've rattled on rather long about all this, but it was something I really enjoyed, and I wanted to pass on some of the pleasure. Sarah Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:26:56 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll skip replying to most of 'Diva's' message as I can only see it descending into further sniping. If anyone wants to know my thoughts on his/her comments, let me know. She/he seems to have a particular problem however with the line that appeared on one of our posters at the con: 'After Deliverance, 'tis time to seek Redemption'. We used it because it sounded amusing - like a religious slogan - and for no other reason. I seriously doubt whether anyone thinks we are anything to do with Deliverance. We've never referred to Deliverance in our flyers, in our progress reports or in our adverts. We don't see ourselves as a successor to Deliverance. The only connection we've ever had with them was when we changed the date of our convention to move it away from Deliverance and give them a clear field. (We'd originally planned a much earlier date, which helps explain why we started advertising so early on because we'd stared planning early on.) > >Are you going to do so > >or do you prefer to criticise her anonymously? > I don't know how familiar you are with normal net practice but lots of > people use a "net name", one reason being to avoid getting "personal > attention" from mad people. That being the case, why would I choose to give > my name to you? Many people use net names, Dangermouse comes instantly to mind. However, he has no problems with people knowing his real name. Anything I say, I'll put my real name on. Anything I write or publish I will put my name on or use a pseud that I'm willing to admit to in public ('Vanessa Mullen' if anyone really wants to know). I don't send hate mail. I don't mail bomb. I don't even have screaming matches in public places. What are you afraid of? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:35:27 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance - ConCom View Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 05 Apr, JMR wrote: > > > Some Words On Deliverance (in a personal capacity): > > I would just like to say, publically, that the ConCom of "Deliverance" were > well aware of all the problems that arose over the weekend. However, having > been on the ConCom of three other B7 cons, and closely involved with a > number of others, I can categorically state that none of these problems > were unique to "Deliverance". Certainly. I've seen many cons fall foul of many problems. Neutral Zone also ran late on the fancy dress. I've yet to see a con that is totally problem-free and I doubt that I ever will. Programme changes bedevil virtually every con as guests go out for unexpected meals without telling the con com, party-goers set off sprinkler systems, equipment gets stolen, etc. Hotels wiping keys is a new one to me, but it just goes to show that the unexpected is always there. (That's not a criticism. Knowing why Sheelagh's workshop was in the corridor makes it understandable) > Yes, there were areas where we got things wrong, which, again, is not > something unique to "Deliverance", but I hope that the enjoyment of our > attendees and guests was always our priority. When we became aware of > problems, we did what we could to resolve them, or to come up with a viable > compromise as a solution (for instance, the Sunday night autograph session > in the Main Hall, which was arranged "on the spot" to make sure EVERYONE > got a chance to get all the signatures they wanted). The extra autograph session was something I felt you got right. As I said in an earlier posting, I do not think you could have come up with a perfect autograph session given the sheer number of fans wanting the autographs of so many guests. I quibbled over some of the minor details of not keeping the queue fully informed of the situstion, but you were essentially faced with an impossible situation. > The staff of "Deliverance", Ops Managers, Events Managers, Stewards etc., > all worked like SLAVES over the weekend, and so, thanks given to them at > the closing ceremony was well-deserved. That I can well believe. I've got some idea of how much sleep some of them had. The amount of work put in by unpaid volunteers would stagger most people. > > Confusion over the Fancy Dress and Artshow does surprise me a little. I > can't speak for the Artshow, as this wasn't in my jurisdiction, but I > understood that the Fancy Dress Rehearsal on Saturday afternoon was to be > an open forum for all those with or without forms who wished to > participate, and that timing, running order etc. was to be worked out by > the contestants themselves, under the (very experienced) direction of the > two people who had volunteered to organise it. You're wrong there. The Programme Guide said that fancy dress forms had to be handed in to Ops by 12 noon on Saturday. I'd have preferred an open forum. We were also unable to reherse as much as we'd have liked as the main hall wasn't available. We had to guess at timing and how long to allow for getting to the area in front of the stage. There was no chance for people with music to do a practice run through with it. (Not Cathy and Paul's fault, but an annoying hassle factor) > I'm quite sure that Judith P. will discover at "Redemption" that those who > stick their heads over the parapet to organise events become very easy > targets. I'm quite sure that I will. Heck , one list member is chucking eggs already and the con isn't until next year! I fully expect to end up several hundred quid out of pocket (from incidental travel expenses to meetings and the like), totally knackered and having missed most of the events myself, only to have everyone tell me in graphic detail what I did wrong. Although I'll comment on things that I feel could have been done better, at the end of the day, I've nothing but admiration for those who are willing to put in so much hard work for so little reward. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:42:48 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Elements Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII By a happy coincidence, Sheelagh phoned me shortly after I'd posted the review of Elements. She tells me that the price is the same as that for tapes 2,3,4. (8.25 pounds in the UK) She also said that tape 2, Liberatored, with Paul, Gareth, Michael, has had a new batch made as the original one had sold out. She is very low on stock of tape 1, Blake's Back, and can only afford to reissue one tape at a time, so if you want this one, get it now as it will shortly become unavailable. Horizon don't currently have 'Elements' but will probably do so before long. Sheelagh and Joe both asked me to say how delighted they were to meet all the people who came to say Hello to them at Delivernace. Sheelagh says it was wonderful to put faces to all the people who'd written to her and wants to thank everyone who has supported the tapes and their book. Sheelagh and Joe will be at Visions this year, as will Gareth Thomas. (I'll probably be there too, but I doubt that I constitute much of an incentive for anyone to go ) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:35:04 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Elements Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII (Sorry, this got mailed the first time without Sheelagh's adress) By a happy coincidence, Sheelagh phoned me shortly after I'd posted the review of Elements. She tells me that the price is the same as that for tapes 2,3,4. (8.25 pounds in the UK or $15 to the US) She also said that tape 2, Liberatored, with Paul, Gareth, Michael, has had a new batch made as the original one had sold out. She is very low on stock of tape 1, Blake's Back, and can only afford to reissue one tape at a time, so if you want this one, get it now as it will shortly become unavailable. Sheelagh can take cheques in dollars or pounds. They should be made payable to Sheelagh Wells, and the address to send them to is Sheelagh Wells, 20a New Road, Brentford, Middlesex, TW8 0NX, England. Horizon don't currently have 'Elements' but will probably do so before long. Sheelagh and Joe both asked me to say how delighted they were to meet all the people who came to say Hello to them at Delivernace. Sheelagh says it was wonderful to put faces to all the people who'd written to her and wants to thank everyone who has supported the tapes and their book. Sheelagh and Joe will be at Visions this year, as will Gareth Thomas. (I'll probably be there too, but I doubt that I constitute much of an incentive for anyone to go ) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:40:49 +0100 From: "Diva" To: "Judith Proctor" , "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) Message-ID: <01bd612f$518d16c0$74edb094@diva> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit People *did* think Redemption was to do with Deliverance. Please can you answer my question: Did you ask permission from the Deliverance Concom to use their name in your publicity? -----Original Message----- From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Date: 06 April 1998 06:56 Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance report (2/2) I'll skip replying to most of 'Diva's' message as I can only see it descending into further sniping. If anyone wants to know my thoughts on his/her comments, let me know. She/he seems to have a particular problem however with the line that appeared on one of our posters at the con: 'After Deliverance, 'tis time to seek Redemption'. We used it because it sounded amusing - like a religious slogan - and for no other reason. I seriously doubt whether anyone thinks we are anything to do with Deliverance. We've never referred to Deliverance in our flyers, in our progress reports or in our adverts. We don't see ourselves as a successor to Deliverance. The only connection we've ever had with them was when we changed the date of our convention to move it away from Deliverance and give them a clear field. (We'd originally planned a much earlier date, which helps explain why we started advertising so early on because we'd stared planning early on.) > >Are you going to do so > >or do you prefer to criticise her anonymously? > I don't know how familiar you are with normal net practice but lots of > people use a "net name", one reason being to avoid getting "personal > attention" from mad people. That being the case, why would I choose to give > my name to you? Many people use net names, Dangermouse comes instantly to mind. However, he has no problems with people knowing his real name. Anything I say, I'll put my real name on. Anything I write or publish I will put my name on or use a pseud that I'm willing to admit to in public ('Vanessa Mullen' if anyone really wants to know). I don't send hate mail. I don't mail bomb. I don't even have screaming matches in public places. What are you afraid of? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:42:53 +0100 From: "Diva" To: , Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Diva's comments Message-ID: <01bd612f$9b577840$74edb094@diva> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, allow me to apologise if I failed to make myself clear. I wouldn't dream of attacking Redemption - how can I attack something that hasn't happened? My question - as yet unanswered by both you and Judith - is did you ask permission from the Deliverance con to use their name in your publicity? It doesn't "offend" me because it's not my con you mentioned, but I think it is bound to confuse people when you're standing in the dealer's room at Deliverance with "After Deliverance comes Redemption" on your posters. And before you ask why the Concom did not object at the time I venture to suggest it's because they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. After all, if they objected, you would say (as you have about me) that they were attacking your con. The more objective view being that your slogan causes avoidable confusion. Thank you for your more sensible remarks about Deliverance and Redemption. It gives me hope for your con that someone on the committee is capable of responding to my comments with grace. Diva@tn.prestel.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk Subject: [B7L] Re Diva's comments >I would just like to say that as someone who really enjoyed >Deliverance and as a member of the committee that is running >Redemption next year, I was more than a little upset at Diva's >comments about Redemption. While I have no problem with >him or her disagreeing with Kathryn Andersen's view of the >convention (you both had valid points), I don't see why this >should be used as an excuse to attack Redemption. What Diva >actually said was: > >"But then Kathryn neglected to mention her own interest in all >this, namely that her friend Ms Proctor is organizing the >Redemption con which will no doubt be perfect in all respects >thanks to Kathryn's omniscience. This con is being run by a >different committee although they are currently using the slogan >"After Deliverance comes Redemption" which I think is pretty >cheeky of them, particularly in the light of Kathryn's (endless) >criticism." > >Kathryn's contribution to Redemption was to provide the >excellent Liberator vs Shadow artwork that we are using, for >which we are extremely grateful. I am sure we will make >mistakes at Redemption, we are only human in the same way >the people who organised Deliverance are. They did a great job >overall and I for one am really grateful for the hard work they >put in so that myself and the other 749 B7 fans could have an >excellent weekend. We will also strive to make Redemption as >much fun as we can for our members. > >As to the slogan "After Deliverance tis time to seek >Redemption", that was my idea and it was done as a joke. And >in fact one of the people helping organise Deliverance >complimented us on it. I'm sorry if it offended you. > >cheers >Steve Rogerson > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:31:56 +0100 (BST) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Good news and bad news Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > And we asked him to do > something a little more scientific, rather than mythic, as it would > be truer to B7, and he said he'd seriously consider it. Isn't B7 based more on character than any other factor? I agree that there was more emphasis on science than myth, but both of these were, to my view, minor elements of the series. The series was primarily a study of individuals fighting against desperate odds, in addition to presenting a nightmare vision of a corrupt totalitarian regime. At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, I'd say that if you want to speculate for hours about how the teleport works (or indeed, whether it's scientifically feasible), Star Trek is a perfectly good forum for that kind of fanwank. Blake's 7 is much more than that. Blake's 7 is timeless. The crew could be on the last Viking longboat instead of the Liberator -- and Standard by 12 could mean 12 knots -- the series would still command the same kind of appeal. While "The Sevenfold Crown" was an agreeable and enjoyable play, its most glaring omission wasn't science -- it was character. You weren't drawn into Avon's and Vila's worlds. You weren't sitting there, shocked and stunned by what the Federation were capable of, thinking, "Shoot, I could have been born into a regime like that." I don't care how much science or myth there is in the next play -- all I ask is that at least one of Avon, Tarrant and Dayna act despicably for some very good reason, and that at the end of it I can sit down and feel very lucky to be able to call Tony Blair a w*****r (Should I so desire). Cheers, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 04:11:10 PDT From: "Don Trower" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] brazilian GP Message-ID: <19980406111111.26147.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >The Maclaren pit crew at the Brazilian Formula One GP looked >like fed. troopers ! IMHO........ Avon - driver: His got the leathers and the right attitude. Cally - pit manager: Telephathy to brief Avon quickly. Soolin, Dayna - pit crew: Tight fitting overalls. (sorry fantasy breakthrough) Blake - PR man: Talk Murray Walker into the ground. Villa - in charge of the jack: Using Orac as a pivot point for a large oily wooden lever. Zen - wheels: Cut down a bit, the flashing lights would look good on a night race. Avon: "Zen ! status ?" Zen: "MEDIUM RANGE SENSORS INDICATE A BEND AHEAD, CHANGING DOWN TO STANDARD BY FOUR, PURSUIT CARS HAVE DISENGAGED." Gan - Team Graphics: After talking about his artistic side in Stoke I see Gan on his farm with a artist's paint brush, with the race team he could do some cool graphics. Servalan - Team manager: I want to win ! Travis or Tarrant- Second driver: Head to head with Avon for team top slot. Jenna - Team owner: Was a driver in the older times now made her money and owns the team, does the odd guest spot with Murray Walker in the Box. Don. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #103 **************************************