From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #112 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/112 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 112 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Merlin Re: [B7L] Liberator RE: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long) Re: [B7L] Liberator Re: [B7L] Liberator Re: [B7L] Liberator [B7L] Logic of Empire [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) [B7L] Gender (was re: Deliverance pros and cons) Re: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) RE: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) Re: [B7L] Power [B7L] Hi, and Bye for a while [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Liberator Re: [B7L] Re: Power [B7L] Horizon [B7L] RE: blakes7-d Digest V98 #111 [B7L] Re: Liberaror [B7L] model orac ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:28:33 -0600 From: "John J. Doherty" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Merlin Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980414162833.007dfaf0@gemini.oscs.montana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've seen the IMDB entry on this Merlin. My fear is that it is the rumoured TNT version of the horrorific "The Mists of Avalon" but perhaps not -- Mists is more about Morgan Le Fay than Merlin. Blaze (I've usually seen it as Blaise) is Merlin's mentor/teacher/student, depending on which parts of the legend you read. The Brits may remember Don Henderson playing Blaise in the BBC's "Merlin of the Crystal Cave" a few years ago. -- John At 05:41 PM 4/10/1998 -0700, Jay McGuigan wrote: >I know a couple of people, including myself, were wondering about the >two upcoming films called Merlin, and which one GT was in. > >I did a little research and IMDB states that GT is in the one with >Jason Connery as Merlin, GT plays Blaze (?). Doesn't say if it's a >theatrical release. > >The other one is a TV mini-series which will be on NBC (I think) with >Sam Neill as Merlin and Rutger Hauer also. > >Hope this sheds some light on it. > >Jay >100% Avon >Retainer of Avon's Leathers >B7 Novice Writers Group > > > >== > > >**************************************************** >I have no morals, yet I'm a very moral person. --Voltaire >Everything is for the best, in the best of all possible worlds. --Voltaire (Candide) >Check out my homepage at: >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/4518 >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:23:53 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980415092353.006a094c@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:35 14/04/98 +0200, Jeroen wrote: > > >PS: Secondly ... where IS orac. > > Still in the flyer?... -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:05:31 +1200 From: "Graham, Gregory" To: "'Helen Krummenacker'" , "'B7'" Subject: RE: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long) Message-ID: <710458B7BCD3D011897D0000F8003AB791D91E@invex.agresearch.cri.nz> Content-Type: text/plain > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Krummenacker [SMTP:avona@jps.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:37 PM > To: Graham, Gregory > Subject: Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long) > > Graham, Gregory wrote: > > > > > Oops sorry! Avona that message was meant for the lysator list. > > > > > Could you forward it on for me? > > > > Thanks in advance > > Greg > I will be happy to, as soon as I get another post from the list. > ::blush:: I haven't got the list in my address book. > blakes7@lysator.liu.se is the address you want. Sorry for forcing you to send it on but I haven't got a copy and I really should do some work for a change... > Your points are > excellent, though. I really like the women of B7, though the > complentary complaint is that part of the problem is _yes_ the women > are sometimes more experienced, always intelligent, active-- but > except > for Servalan, they let the guys decide what to do! Still, they vote in > the debates, and sometimes their suggestions are the ones used. I > agree > it's very advanced for the time. > Good point, but I think it was more letting Avon decide what to do (and the Judiths et al would happily do that). Having considered the result of Avon's captaincy, perhaps they should all have listened to Vila :]. > Oh, Leela is the savage companion (I used to dress as her) you > couldn't > remmeber the name of, and the last companion, Ace, was totally > kick-tail. She carried homemade high explosives with her, much to the > Doctor's dismay. > You used to dress up as Leela . We only got to see "silver nemesis" in NZ, and the feeling I had was "Oh god, a loud-mouthed American in an excellent Brit program". How come Christopher Reeve is(was) the only American actor that can do Brit Flicks and not stand out like a sore thumb. Leela and Ace would have been the only regular characters to carry weapons, does this mean there is a correlation between Barbarians and Americans (on TV anyway). Thanks for the compliment by the way, I hope my last few comments have spoiled your opinion. TTFN Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:54:26 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 14 Apr, Lucas Young wrote: > Did Liberator use one of Ensor's chips? Could ORAC access Zen's data? I > think once the Gauda Prime ruse was over (Avon had enough time to plan it > before coming into the base) they dug ORAC up and used the base to rebuild > the Liberator! Ensor developed the tariel cell. It seems highly likely that the System developed the tariel cell independently as Orac was able to control any computer with tariel cells and in the episode 'Orac' he is able to control Zen. There are other occasions on which he controlled Liberator/Zen. 'Dawn of the Gods' has Orac wanting to investigate the 'black hole'. One thing I've never been able to decide is how much data storage Orac had. He used other computers to do his donkey work on occasion. (I think it was 'Traitor' where he uses a Federation computer to do calculations and was caught in the act). Did he use other computers for data storage too? He may have had very little capacity of his own as he wouldn't have needed it. If this is the case, then he might have relied on Zen's memory banks to record all the details of Liberator's design and have lost them when Liberator was destroyed. On the other hand, he might have found it all so interesting that he kept his own copy. The real $64,000 is what difference taking Orac's key out actually made. It certainly stopped him being able to talk, but the series is rather inconsistent about whether it prevented him from doing other things. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:35:09 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980415163509.006ae330@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:54 14/04/98 +0100, Judith wrote: >The real $64,000 is what difference taking Orac's key out actually made. Turned off the flashy lights. :-P -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:11:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list) Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator Message-Id: <199804150711.JAA23320@pampus.gns.getronics.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The real $64,000 is what difference taking Orac's key out actually made. It > certainly stopped him being able to talk, but the series is rather inconsistent > about whether it prevented him from doing other things. > Stop the "clicking" noises ? 8o;) AFAIK only the user interface. To prevent unauthorized access to ORAC because he would obey anyone (volcano) without question ... eventualy. There are some inconsistencies over the years (mostly at the introduction of ORAC) but it looks like ORAC always functions (when not dropped on the floor). Jeroen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:33:11 +1100 From: Sandy Douglas To: space-city@world.std.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Logic of Empire Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I haven't seen a review of Logic of Empire so here it is. This is a fan produced audio tape made by the same people who did "Mark of Kane". If you liked that one you will not be disappointed with the followup. This tape is set 7 years after Gauda Prime and features Paul Darrow as Avon, Jackie Pearce as Servalan and cameos from Peter Tuddenham as Slave and Orac as well as Gareth Thomas as Blake. This is written by fans for fans and as such has tremendous attention to detail. Avon sounds like Avon. Both from the script and from the actor. In this episode Avon says exactly what is necessary and nothing extra. As well Darrow has his Avon voice firmly in and under control. As an aside his 2nd season Avon voice is also there- in a flashback dream sequence with Blake showing that he is capable of doing another radio play in any series from 1-4. I wont give the plot away but deals with Avon, the sole survivor of Gauda Prime now a moral arms dealer and a resistance group who want him to do a small service for them. Betrayal is the name of the game but by whom and the reasons why are what makes this storyline interesting. What I like about this production was what I like about the series as a whole. The Avon one-liners, the relationships between the characters and the twist at the end. Though I will admit the ending was very much like a story I first read on the Internet a couple of years ago. If you didn't like the Dr Who-like adventure of Sevenfold Crown this may be more to your liking. I did like the little warning on the tape- "Unauthorised copying ... etc strictly prohibited or Avon will shoot you down like a dog" The tape is available from Horizon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:11:06 +0100 From: Russ Massey To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) Message-ID: <66pirEA6eIN1EwB9@wriding.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's another of Neil's musings on the nature of the series and whether it can incorporate the trappings of the cyberpunk sub-genre. No reproduction for profit, and no copying unless the author's name is retained if you please. A HARD-WIRED SEVEN? by Neil Faulkner (from Altazine #4) Was B7 cyberpunk? As I'm sure you're all dying to know the answer to this tantalising question, I'll answer it straight away: No, it wasn't. But it might have been, even though it never could have been. B7 wasn't cyberpunk for a number of reasons. For a start, when the series went into production, the term didn't exist. The concept of 'cyberpunk' first emerged in the early 1980s to describe the work of a small group of new young SF writers - such as William Gibson and John Shirley - who merged a streetwise punk attitude with the future implications of the dawning Information Age. In the late 80s the term spread to the rolegaming industry (which is how I first got to hear about it), and only in the past few years has it impinged on the wider public consciousness. Gibson, author of the award- winning *Neuromancer*, was apparently the man who coined the term 'cyberspace', with which I'm sure we're all now quite familiar, though the cyberspace he envisaged is a little more exciting than the flood of on-screen e-mail chatter that we currently understand by it. As with so many things, popular awareness and popular acceptance have altered and arguably debased the original nature of cyberpunk. The rolegaming market was perhaps the turning point, introducing a whole new audience to the concept. The first cyberpunk roleplaying game was simply called *Cyberpunk* (now *Cyberpunk 2020*), closely followed by *Shadowrun*, which merged high-tech near-future realism with magic and fantasy. Both were instant commercial hits, prompting an inevitable release of cash-in supplements. This, I think, is where the rot set in, because all of these follow-ons were little more than gadget catalogues, brimming with implants and 'smart' (as in intelligent) vehicles and weapons. Especially weapons. Adolescent rabid kill-frenzy hardware. The photogenic potential of high-tech lethality gave birth to the action movie and made Arnold Schwarzenegger an international superstar; by the time a true cyberpunk movie came to be made - the not-terribly-good *Johnny Mnemonic* - it was doomed to be still-born in a rut so deep it couldn't hope to climb out (though JM is so perfunctorily clich‚-ridden I'm half inclined to suspect at least an element of parody). So, what is cyberpunk? On the surface, cyberpunk is high-tech sleaze, a marriage of style and silicon, or mirror-shaded youth cult where life is cheaper than any number of computerised implants. All you need to do is look cool, act cooler, talk smart and sport the right hardware. That was about as far as the roleplaying games went, which I considered so superficial I soon stopped playing cyberpunk games. The real, underlying, nature of cyberpunk is deeper and darker, and all the more alluring for being so frightening. Cyberpunk is Hardtech in extremis. Technology has gone beyond being the shaper of society to become society itself. Part of Gibson's second novel, *Count Zero*, concerns a search for a mysterious artist, who turns out to be an abandoned artificial intelligence, drifting in high orbit. Other AIs have transformed themselves into gods, inhabiting the grey and featureless frontiers of cyberspace. The evolution of technology and its integration with living systems is no longer under human control; people are merely the means by which technology achieves its aims. This is not an entirely novel concept in SF; humanity has fallen slave to its creations since Victor Frankenstein bought his first alembic. The theme reoccurs frequently in SF; Fredric March's classic short story *Answer* and Dr Who's *Genesis of the Daleks* are just two examples. Cyberpunk is different in that it shows this subjugation of humanity as a social as well as a technological phenomenon, and throws in the all-too-believable notion that this can happen not in spite of out efforts to prevent it, but through our willingness to let it happen. Gibson's cyberspace is a 'consensual hallucination'. Cyberpunk also adds the economic dimension, which SF has a habit of overlooking. The human substratum of the cyberpunk world is dominated not by governments, which are largely ineffectual entities, but by commercial concerns. In Gibson's novels, nearly everything is described as a product of a manufacturer and given a brand name (either real, like Sony, Braun or BMW, or invented). Everything is corporate product or corporate property. And so are people. Technology owns the shapers of its own evolution, and they permit this because they can profit from it. Subservience pays. Then there is the punk element. Punk culture rejected the conformist standards of the 1970s, and the heroes of the cyberpunk share this anti- establishment, anti-intellectual attitude. They inhabit a shadowed, lawless world of concrete and steel, scrounging off the discards of 'respectable' society. They are parasites and thieves, outcasts, junkies, self-centred, selfish, amoral, cynical, emotionally blunted, spiritually gutted. If you think they sound like an unsavoury bunch, wait until you meet the bad guys. Cyberpunk, then, is an essentially dystopian genre, and is open to the same criticisms that apply to all nightmare visions, namely that they run the risk of celebrating the very things they clam to be condemning. And whilst cyberpunk might be a new high-tech urban outsider folklore, it is still a fantasy vision, in which smart streetkid heroes run rings around the ruthless corporate dictators of society. Stripped of the computer jargon, it is a genre where peasants topple kings and win princesses. Given the kind of social infrastructure it depicts, this level of optimism can seem sorely out of place. In AltaZine-2 I traced the connections between B7 and punk, and found what I consider to be a similarity of attitude (if only coincidental). It would therefore seem natural that there might be some connection that can be drawn between B7 and cyberpunk. They are there, I think, but at a very nascent level, which is why I said at the very start that B7 was not cyberpunk. The main links are technological. Prosthetic limbs and implants are a common feature of cyberpunk heroes (especially in rolegames), and they are in the series too. Again, this is not an original concept, cyborgs being almost as old as science fiction itself. The most obvious example is Travis' arm with its lazeron destroyer. (Curiously, no fan writer other than myself seems to have posited that some implant or other might also lurk under his eyepatch.) Sensory replacement devices were sported by Hal Mellanby and Ardus (in *Animals*), and Zee (in *Gambit*) had an artificial leg built for him by Docholli (a cybersurgeon). The notable thing about all of these is that they were replacements for lost limbs or organs; there is no example I can think of any character who voluntarily undergoes augmentation. Beyond the Federation, there are the Altas, who some fans consider to be robots but are more likely augmented people (human or otherwise). Even if the Altas are not robots/androids, they might as well be for all their mindless subservience to the System, which introduces stock SF Myth #27, that technology dehumanises you. Personally I think this is spurious reasoning. It is a common theme in SF, and roleplaying games reflect it, with cybernetic implants having a Humanity Cost or similar. In the latter case this primarily a game mechanic, to stop players overloading their characters with lethal implants, but the concept exerts a powerful pull. I think it is false because all the evidence we have fails to support it. If a cyborg is a human being somehow augmented or enabled by an inorganic device, then hearing aids, dentures, pacemakers, plastic hip joints and even wearing glasses ought to be turning out psychos by the thousand. It doesn't seem to work that way. If the commonplace implants we take for granted (so much so that we fail to recognise them as implants) don't have this effect, then I see no reason work a computer chip lodged in the brain should have the same effect. This is where cyberpunk has the edge over traditional SF, in the way it recognises that technology alone does not dehumanise people, but the society that technology facilitiates certainly can. Cyberpunk presents a greedy, selfish, ambitious vision of a high-tech future, and this creates greedy, selfish, ambitious people, with or without computerised enhancements. Another essential feature of cyberpunk is the concept of cyberspace (under whatever name) and the ability of people to interact directly with computers. B7 as a broadcast series predates, if only by a few years, the concept of cyberspace, so its absence from the series is no surprise. Direct interaction with computers is hintd at in a few episodes though. Firstly, Gan's limiter might be a putative example. The Alta's ability to interface directly with the System is another (and Jenna did the same thing with Zen, albeit accidentally, in *Cygnus Alpha*). The best example however is probably the sensornet which appeared in *Deathwatch*. This is very close to the 'trode- pads which Gibson's cyberspace cowboys use to enter the Net, and the complete sensory transmission it enables echoes the 'rider-chip' which figures so strongly in *Neuromancer*. We can infer, then, that the technology of direct interfacing with a computer system, and the sigital encoding of sensory and emotional data, is a reality in the B7 universe. It's just not very common, or at least not universally accessible. (*DeathWatch* might also count as an example of virtual reality - the combat grounds might have been computer constructed and transmiytted to the duellists - and audience - as sensory input. Again this is a concept that did not have a name when the series was made. Virtual realirt also features prominantly in the two good episodes of the Doctor Who story *The Deadly Assassin*). As a further example, consider the visual image structuraliser used on Avon in *Terminal*, which has additional implications for the memory manipulation used on Blake and others in *The Way Back*. The stock hardware of cyberpunk fiction makes such things explicable, even predictable. Artificial intelligence is also a stock feature of cyberpunk. In Gibson's future, AIs are powerful entities in their own right. Some have citizenship status. There are AIs in B7 too; Orac is the most obvious example (and its ability to crack into any computer with tarriel cell technology is a further echo of cyberspace). Zen should also count on this score, and I suppose Slave ought to be included as well. Orac can be taken further still; several of Gibson's stories feature encoded personalities of living or dead individuals, and another cyberpunk novel, *When Gravity Fails* makes free use of plug-in modular personalities, allowing you to be whoever you want. Could it be that Orac is actually based on a recording of Ensor's personality? As well as the technological dimension, B7 echoes cyberpunk in other ways, though in a muted form. The cynicism, pragmatism and moral ambiguity underlying B7 represents a step towards the levels of social realism that pervades cyberpunk. The ready use of violence and the brutal depiction of it (in some episodes at least, especially the earlier ones) is also a hallmark of cyberpunk (there are lasers in *Neuromancer* and *Count Zero*), but not the clean, snappy Star Wars variety; Gibson's lasers are dirty, deadly weapons, severing limbs and vapourising internal organs). The low production standards of the series created (albeit coincidentally) an atmosphere of shabbiness and decline. And of course, the gloomy, dystopian vision shared by both, with no promise of happy endings or successful resolution. But, as I said at the start of this (already overlong; sorry, please bear with me) article, B7 was not cyberpunk. It diverges from cyberpunk in a number of ways. Firstly of course, there is the fact that the cyberpunk concept did not exist when B7 went into production, but there are other major differences: 1) the technological awareness of cyberpunk is only rudimentary in B7, and the language of computer technology is virtually absent. This is partly because some of it didn't exist when B7 was made, and that which did was not common knowledge; even if the writers knew it (unlikely in itself), it would have been lost on the audience. 2) cyberpunk is down-to-earth, urban fiction, and tends not to roam the galaxy in whizzo super spaceships. Cities hardly ever features in B7, and the crew never went out into the streets to mingle with the masses. There were, of course, very practical production reasons for this. 3) cyberpunk is youth oriented; its heroes tend to be somewhat younger than the main characters of B7. Youth culture has a high profile in cyberpunk fiction. 4) for all its technological marvels, cyberpunk is only a step away from being mundane fiction. Gibson's first two novels are essentially 22nd Century thrillers. The more marvellous aspects of traditional space opera - aliens' strange planets, isolated cultures - and the openly didactic symbolism of science fiction are missing. So, B7 was not cyberpunk. It was made too early for one thing. Even if it had been made several years later, it still wouldn't have qualified. Television is too conservative a medium, and has enough trouble with science fiction as a basic concept. The cutting edge of the genre hasn't a hope of making the small screen. But that doesn't mean that B7 can't be cyberpunk. I would say that in fan fiction, it can be. Of course, it doesn't have to be, but the option is there. Cyberpunk B7 is a very real possibility that deserves to be explored further than it has been (which is hardly at all). The technology is certainly there in the series, though it seems to be rare and restricted. There is a sound rationale for this. The silicon revolution and the Internet have ushered in the so-called Information Age. Concerns about this unprecedented level of public access to information are voiced daily. We might suppose that the Federation would try very hard to restrict this level of access; if there is a pan-galactic internet in B7, it is for the privileged few, within the Federation at least (elsewhere things might be different). Prosthetic augmentation might be seen as being reflected in mutoids, with their 'high bionic rebuild'. As for the low-life, street level dimension of cyberpunk, its absence in the series merely reflects the places the crew visited in the episodes. The mean streets of the Delta zones in Federation cities might be very cyberpunky indeed; urban space rats tripped out on shadow, kingpins under contract to the Terra Nostra, freelance cyberspace jocks illegally penetrating the Net, rider-chipped Central Security agents on their tail - the possibilities are there for any fan writer who wants to take them up. Obviously I'm biased. I happen to like cyberpunk, its dystopian vision, its density of style and illusion of realism, its social awareness and sleazy high- tech glitter. Most fan writers and fanfic readers would seem to be somewhat less interested in the concept. Fair enough, but cyberpunk, like hardtech, is as much an attitude and approach to writing as it is a genre in its own right. Blakes 7, the series, is now looking very dated and technologically backward; an injection of cyberpunk can bring it up to date without compromising the basic vision of the series or distorting the central characters. The Star Trek movies updated Trek without adulterating it; cyberpunk can do the same for B7. Besides, wouldn't Avon look really cool in mirror shades? -- transcribed by Russ Massey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:12:04 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Gender (was re: Deliverance pros and cons) Message-ID: <199804150712_MC2-39EF-DBAC@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill said >From a purely b7 point of view, I thought Diva was male >(named after Blake's assistant/controller in 'Blake', even >though ISTR that was spelt Deeva). No, he was Deva, as in Chester! Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:25:24 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just a couple of random thoughts on cyberseven. I don't think it's true to say that B7 came too early to be cyberpunk: there are various proto-cyberpunk novels by authors such as Bester and Dick which could have served as inspiration. Indeed, if you want an idea of what a cyberpunk B7 might look like, I can recommend Bester's "Tiger Tiger" (published in the US as "The Stars My Destination" for some reason). This has a whole lot of elements that would later be identfied as cyberpunk (bodily enhancements through technology, corporate intrigue, etc), but is still a fast-moving, grand interplanetary tale with spaceships and big explosions. A damn good book, actually. Furthermore, I don't agree that this would really be updating B7. Cyberpunk is starting to look pretty dated these days, as 80s as legwarmers and thrash metal. Moving the show on by less than ten years doesn't really seem like that great an advancement. Finally, cyberpunk seems too cynical a genre for B7. That might sound a bit daft - doesn't B7 have a cynical streak a mile wide? - but bear with me. Idealism plays a big part in B7, if only to be attacked or subverted. In cyberpunk universal cynicism is pretty much taken for granted, so there's nothing for it to contrast with. Of course, all this could simply be a manifestation of my own tastes and prejudices. I for one would like to see B7 as Philip K Dick might write it. Blake falls hopelessly in love with a cruel dark-haired woman, Avon and Cally are married but Avon throws it all away for a futile relationship with a manipulative sixteen-year-old with leukemia, Vila is the only character to survive psychologically unscathed and Orac turns out to be God. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:27:55 +-200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: "'Blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: RE: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) Message-Id: <01BD6872.4FE04460@nl-arn-lap0063> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD6872.4FE7E580" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6872.4FE7E580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Russ Massey [SMTP:russ@wriding.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:11 PM To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] A Hard-Wired Seven (long) Blakes 7, the series, is now looking very dated and technologically backward; an injection of cyberpunk can bring it up to date without compromising the basic vision of the series or distorting the central characters. The Star Trek movies updated Trek without adulterating it; cyberpunk can do the same for B7. I agree, cyberpunk would be perfect for B7 Besides, wouldn't Avon look really cool in mirror shades? No way, Avon is far too cool already. The shades might actually make him less cool! -- transcribed by Russ Massey ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6872.4FE7E580 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgELAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAwAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAdwAAAAAAAAC1O8LALHcQGqG8CAArKlbCFQAAADwmh0Hg49ARgogAYJeF jbHkgAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAQmxha2VzN0BseXNhdG9yLmxpdS5zZQBTTVRQ AEJsYWtlczdAbHlzYXRvci5saXUuc2UAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAXAAAA Qmxha2VzN0BseXNhdG9yLmxpdS5zZQAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAGQAAACdCbGFr ZXM3QGx5c2F0b3IubGl1LnNlJwAAAAACAQswAQAAABwAAABTTVRQOkJMQUtFUzdATFlTQVRPUi5M SVUuU0UAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAFwAAAEJsYWtlczdAbHlzYXRvci5saXUuc2UA AAIB918BAAAALAAAAL8AAAC1O8LALHcQGqG8CAArKlbCFQAAADwmh0Hg49ARgogAYJeFjbHkgAAA AwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAALIZAEEgAEAJAAAAFJFOiBbQjdMXSBBIEhh cmQtV2lyZWQgU2V2ZW4gKGxvbmcpANgKAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcEAA8ADQAbADcAAwBKAQEggAMADgAA AM4HBAAPAA0AGAApAAMAOQEBCYABACEAAAAzNUVFNTJCRDYxRDREMTExQkREMTAwNjA5N0YwMzZE NgAfBwEDkAYAhAYAACIAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkAoGTfiGFovQEeAHAAAQAAACQAAABSRTogW0I3TF0gQSBIYXJkLVdpcmVkIFNl dmVuIChsb25nKQACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvWhhiL29Uu471GER0b3RAGCX8DbWAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUA AABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAGgAAAGphY3F1ZWxpbmUudGhpanNlbkBjbWcubmwAAAADAAYQcYge JQMABxBMAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAALS0tLS1PUklHSU5BTE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLUZST006UlVTU01B U1NFWVNNVFA6UlVTU0BXUklESU5HREVNT05DT1VLU0VOVDpXRURORVNEQVksQVBSSUwxNSwxOTk4 MTI6MTFQTQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEYDAABCAwAA3AQAAExaRnVz5RfdAwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4C2Bu DhAwNDOdAfcgAqQD4wIAY2gKwOBzZXQwIAcTAoMAUKEQdnBycTIRdn0KgNkIyCA7CW8OMDUCgAqB bHVjAFALA2MAQQ8EMz4zC6cKsQqECoQLMGxpvDM2AUAWkBfBA2B0BZBCdBIEMTYgLRqSTz0FEGcL gAdABdAHkHNh/GdlGpMX1hmkF8MLMRmmYGktMTQ0AUAY8DEcODABQAzQHjNiIEaVA2E6DINiEWBS dQQRBE1hBBBleSBbUyBNVFA6ciBhQHdlBRBkC4BnLgEABGBuwi4FoC51a10X1R9gVwZgAjAfx1cJ gG4HkGQ4YXksEXASwAMRMTUhJPAxOTk4JWAyOiAxMSBQTSMHVG8TH8cCYGFrB5A3QGwqeRugdAWw LhjwdS5jETAjCHViahnRH8dbkEI3TF0RcCBICxFYLVdpCXEGUXYJ8CD2KAkADyApHD8dShj0DwYl F1xCJ9MgNyTwdGhsZSARMAiBcyTwBAAgTG5vB+AJAG9rIgEg/SwAciDwJMAZwCvAAHArwN0ZwWgx wAkAGxBjB0AoQPMnsADQa3cLERRgF+MDkQsLgCniaQIgIG9mIAhjeWIEkHB1bmtbNlADkWIFEDJR aQVAdepwMMBvMsMgA/Aw0Ahg6wVABaBtGZFtBAAyQjDR/xfUNHAN0TJwOXE2BDDYNiD7BcAh8HMo gTXgOaQ2UCOhvnIbQRDyANAZwBEgLicArTDhUwGQBcBUCXBrF9R/BGA6wAeRN9Ay1D8COHdhuGR1 bD4RKHA3ZDs2XVZkOBAw02EHgCACEHJ5L9U3LhfVFpIMMi0WIO8DMCAgDEBGMUkzIAnCJPA1Nmh3 CGBsK8A2gCBw7QSQZhnRRAIgKsBE1xl49xfjRkBLBEIHkCHgMVJIE2RuJwVAQXY2ATICIF8JcDQj BaAG8DWBIDlgctsDYAXAcxEAS8E/RNlFyL5OOBA0sCTiTLIxkWYKwZ8ogDgQTbMHQE1BZHk+VLNO pE4hZ2hBQRngdTQj8wDAJ/AgaAdwMfAbgU2j/iEZSkZBF+kakFZlPWEAgPcFATaASFF5F9QgWRfa E4ECAFqwAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgBCEAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMKDtJBVh aL0BQAAIMKDtJBVhaL0BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAADpDgAAHgAl gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAKt8 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6872.4FE7E580-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:12:56 +0930 From: "Ophelia" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Power Message-ID: <01bd6781$529e7380$LocalHost@waltersmith> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Courtney: >As I recall Avon *wasn't* attracted to that woman in "Assassin" -- he found her >irritating and annoying (he probably considered shooting her). It was sweet, >young Tarrant who was taken in. Can't hear you, can't - oh, that doesn't block out words on a screen. Nah, the way I see it, Avon was doing his cold, intellectual, harsh Mills & Boon hero act to impress little Peri. And Tarrant was doing his butch, swaggering macho impression for ditto reason. It's sooooo funny, and one of the reasons I think Assassin is a cruelly under-rated gem. Teh ther two reasons are, of course, that it is a Divine Soolin episode and that we get to see Servalan buy Avon as a slave. oooohhh What a *tease* that episode is. - XXX Lindley Ophelia - ophelia@picknowl.com.au "The girl has beauty, virtue, wit, Grace, humour, wisdom, charity and pluck." LONDON CALLING - a list to discuss Britcoms and knockwurst. http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/knockwurst.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:10:29 +0930 From: "Ophelia" To: "B7 list" , "B7 Spin List" Cc: "slashpoint" Subject: [B7L] Hi, and Bye for a while Message-ID: <01bd686b$ac1fda80$3aa226cb@waltersmith> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I'm in the middle of a million conversations on-and-off list, so I'm taking this opportunity to tell y'all where I am and where I'm going. Apologies Calle, Laura, Gail, for being completely off-topic (Um, I love B7 & I love slash & Elle McFeast is my vote for first president of Australia, that do? ), but I'm too lazy - and still too sick - to be bothered contacting people separately. As soon as I got over my last bout of illness I went down with rather severe tonsillitis. I'm still a touch achy and feverish, but day after tomorrow I'm going on a family holiday to Kangaroo Island. When I've finished petting the wallabies and photographing sealions, I'll be back to talk B7, slash and irrelevancies with a vengeance. 'Till then, love to you all, - XXX Lindley Ophelia - ophelia@picknowl.com.au "The girl has beauty, virtue, wit, Grace, humour, wisdom, charity and pluck." LONDON CALLING - a list to discuss Britcoms and knockwurst. http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/knockwurst.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:16:55 +1000 From: Wainwrights To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Assassin Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980415231655.007ac9e0@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good evening all, I'm new here , so please forgive if I repeat things that you have all been discussing for ages. I noted the mention of "Assassin". I loved that episode mainly because I wanted to be Servalan and buy Avon.Besides that, I thought it was a jolly tense ep. TTFN, Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:01:08 -0500 From: "Reuben Herfindahl" To: , "Bill Billingsley" Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator Message-ID: <009001bd687f$537b3280$660114ac@misnt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator >At 18:54 14/04/98 +0100, Judith wrote: > >>The real $64,000 is what difference taking Orac's key out actually made. > >Turned off the flashy lights. :-P > And don't forget that ahhhh noise that made him say. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:54:05 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Power Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 14 Apr, s.thompson8@genie.geis.com wrote: > And speaking of "Power"-- does anyone at Horizon realize that that title had > already been used for a zine focussing specifically on the female > characters, in the U.S. about ten years ago? I thought it was pretty > strange that, having lifted someone else's idea for a zine title based on > the name of an episode, they should then be making all that ridiculous fuss > about the name of their convention being "intellectual property" that no one > else was allowed to mention! To be fair, we don't know that Diva is part of Horizon and thus should not automatically blame them for any opinion of hers. I've never recieved any complaints from Horizon, nor from any member of the Deliverance con committee. However, if Diva is giving people the impression that she speaks for Horizon, then I think she needs to be very careful indeed in what she says. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:24:18 -0700 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Horizon Message-ID: Could someone give me Diane Geis' email address? I had it at one time but can't find it now. Thank you, Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:40:00 +0000 From: sue.cowley@bbc.co.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (blakes7@lysator.liu.se) Subject: [B7L] RE: blakes7-d Digest V98 #111 Message-ID: <6A1E353581925471%6A1E353581925471@c2-smtp.radio.bbc.co.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sarah said: >And speaking of "Power"-- does anyone at Horizon realize that that title had >already been used for a zine focussing specifically on the female >characters, in the U.S. about ten years ago? I thought it was pretty >strange that, having lifted someone else's idea for a zine title based on >the name of an episode, they should then be making all that ridiculous fuss >about the name of their convention being "intellectual property" that no one >else was allowed to mention! Have to admit the naming of the new Horizon zine was *entirely* down to me...originally it was just going to be a "girl power" special issue of the general "Horizon" zine...then we decided to make it a special and somewhere along the line it came into my mind to call it Power. No infringement intended - just a neat coincidence with girls and the Spices and the episode. Nothing sinister or spooky...Just my plagiaristic mind, obviously. Back to lurkdom... Sue aka Susie Carnell, Horizon Zine Ed (and yes....CloneMaster in charge!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 00:31:50 BST From: pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick Bean) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Liberaror Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain On Tue 14 Apr 98 (23:09:17 +0200), blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se wrote: > What a great ship, still trying to find time to build a 3D model. > Now, if Liberator could "self-regenerate" one assumes it has a copy of > it's own blueprints some where (probably on a SCSI drive...8)) > all you'd need to make a NEW Liberator (which we all want) is to get hold of > another regenerator and fire in the blueprints, you'd think ORAC would know > the specs for the Liberator... Yes, didn't the people in 'Moloc' have large replicaters (I know we only see the small one), so take ORAC to Sardos connect him to one of them and there you are. :-) It is worrying to think that is could have been exactly what Servilan could have done after GP. The other way to get one would be to pop along to 'Space World' and see if they have got around to building DSV3 yet. :-) -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick David Bean) | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ Web http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pdbean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 00:38:43 BST From: pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick Bean) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] model orac Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain Are the Horizon Oracs available yet? The web site ways they have 7 orders and need a minimum of 10 to do a production run, is this information still current? Dose anyone know how good they are/will be? I would pay the 260 ukp for a really good replica. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / pdbean@argonet.co.uk (Patrick David Bean) | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ Web http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pdbean -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #112 **************************************