From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #14 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/14 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re Spam [B7L] (no subject) [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World [B7L] Independent newspaper (UK) [B7L] Bears (was upcoming excitement) [B7L] beards and the silly season [B7L] Re: SC: Attack of the Claypit People [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff Re: [B7L] :Upcoming excitement Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 [B7L] The Way Back -- Charisma Re: [B7L] beards and the silly season Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 [B7L] Re: Beards Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff Re: [B7L] Re: Beards ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 1998 08:58:50 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Spam Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk writes: > Can we trace how we have recently become a target and stop it at > source? Short version: No. Longer version: Not by anything less then the removal of all mentions of the list address from all web pages now in existence or created in the future. It is very likely that now that it's started, it'll only get worse. -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:16:30 +0800 From: Rachel Turner To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] (no subject) Message-id: <34BDD3ED.1E8D9B0@alpha1.curtin.edu.au> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit unsubscibe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:09:17 +0000 From: Russ Massey To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People Message-ID: Yet another article by Neil that deals with the writing of fanfic, and written with a leavening dash of humour... The usual restrictions on duplication apply - not for profit, and no removing the name of the author from the work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ATTACK OF THE CLAYPIT PEOPLE by Neil Faulkner (from Altazine #1) It strikes me as a bit odd that if there's one charge to level against fan writers in general, it's a failure of imagination. Thinking about it, it shouldn't really be terribly odd at all, but it still feels a bit strange. B7 is science fiction, right? The literature of the imagination, right? What's more, it's SF of the rather racy variety, with aliens and big spaceships and deadly weapons and a galactic empire and everything. Exotic worlds don't so much beckon as threaten to splatt down on your head. But not in fanfic. At least not half so often as they ought to. The three essential ingredients of a story might be boiled down to the three P's of writing - People, Places and Plots. You need people to carry out the plot, and plots have got to happen in some place or other. Space opera offers all kinds of exciting possibilities for each of these three vital elements. Fanfic has a bad habit of overlooking them. Let's start with people, or characters. Fan writers are heavily into characters, or so they claim. More specifically, they're into a limited set of characters, namely the regulars, and often only one or two of them. As we all know, fan writers can radically differ in their interpretation of a particular favourite, but that's all part of the game. At least the character in question is being built on, added to ,explained, accounted for. It's when we move beyond the regular cast and into the realm of original characters that we hit problems. Fan writers show either a lack of interest in them (beyond their use as plot devices) or an inability to develop these new creations to any meaningful degree. (Of course, some fan writers can and do make a good job of presenting interesting and engaging original characters. But I'm not talking about *them*.) Here are some of the basic features of a typical original character in a fan story: 1) He or she has no name. Instead he or she (usually he) is a Rebel, a Section Leader, a Space Captain or a Scientist. 2) If s/he does have a name, it's a very silly one. Female characters are more likely to get a slightly sensible, just as they are more likely to get one in the first place. 3) S/he has no ethnic background, nor indeed any kind of background at all. The lucky ones get tagged with an age. 4) S/he walks around stark naked, and either suffers from advanced alopecia or subscribes to a sixties bluebeat revival. I draw this conclusion from the general lack of description of clothing or hair. Female characters (again) are less likely to be skinheads, but are still heavily into streaking. 5) Male characters have bland and instantly forgettable faces that obviously defy all attempts at description. Female characters are all waiting for their chance to get on *Baywatch* (once they get their swimsuits - see #4 above). 6) S/he has no personalising touches like mannerisms, figures of speech, personality quirks. If they have a motivation it's usually Greed, or Power (if they work for the Federation) or helping Avon (if they don't). They are very good at saying "Yes, ma'am", "No, Ma'am" and "Good grief, it's bigger on the inside than it is on the..." - hang on, wrong series. Okay, you get the picture. There must be millions of interesting people out there, but Blake and Avon never seem to meet them. Time after time, ancillary characters are only there to play out their allotted roles in the plot. I would like to suggest that a little bit more could be done with them before they die horribly. In fact, I hereby insist that every fan story should contain at least one fat old Korean woman called Astrid Cometkiller with a beehive hairdo and a penchant for lycra who collects Victorian sauce bottles and never takes off her fluorescent poncho and bowler hat. That'll do for a start. Places don't always fare much better: 'On a particular day, two humankind met on a neutral planet' Ros Williams, *If You Would Have Power* pt 1, Horizon #15 And that's it! Okay, so the 'two humankind' are Servalan and Carnell, but what about the neutral planet? Whereabouts on it are they? On a city street? In a sumptuous mansion (most likely in a RW story)? Underneath the spreading chestnut tree? Knee deep in a septic tank? When I read a story, I like to *know* these things. As with characters, the typical fanfic planet has a number of characteristic features: 1) It has a silly name, sometimes with a Beta or Delta attached to it (Alpha, Gamma and Epsilon are lucky to get a look in). 2) If there are enough people living on it to sustain some kind of economy, everything on the planet is devoted to one particular industry. Leading favourites are mining, building hordes of pursuit ships, or PLEASURE. 3) If the Federation is down there, the whole planet looks like a dual carriageway construction project. The few survivors are all rebels, and live in caves. 4) If the Federation aren't down there, all the people wear chainmail and carry swords and backwards phrase their sentences. 5) In the absence of any people, there are Aliens, readily distinguishable by their long flowing robes and knowing smiles. 6) Otherwise, there is just one crabby old scientist who knew Avon ten years ago and now wants to kill him. He fails and dies horribly. 7) Gravity, climate, topography and vegetation are all unremarkable. Nothing merits attention until everyone gawps at the double sunset. 8) All building interiors are featureless and characterless, with the notable exception of Servalan's Office. Moving on to plots, things finally start to pick up a bit. The average fan writer might care squit all about interesting people or interesting places, but interesting plots are another matter. Nevertheless, some things happen with monotonous regularity: 1) Liberator is forced to run away leaving two of the crew stranded on a typical Fanfic Planet. 2) Two of the crew end up stuck deep underground and can't contact the ship even though it's still in orbit. (It's usually just two of the crew. This is so one can suffer a life threatening injury and the other has to overcome some personal grudge to save her/im) Meanwhile, back on the ship, everyone dithers around and argues over what to do. 3) Aliens with a technology far too advanced for our feeble minds to contemplate play jolly little mind games with the crew. 4) Blake tries to do some rebelling and Avon tells him he's being very silly. 5) Tarrant or Jenna get the chance to do some Expert Piloting, Dayna is landed with a chance for some flashy Martial Arts, Some Federation troopers indulge in a spot of Brutal Thuggery, and Servalan purrs and simpers and thanks everyone for doing exactly what she'd planned they would do three months in advance. 6) Our heroes penetrate Federation security that couldn't guard a fresh fish stall, let alone a top secret installation. Because fan writers are primarily interested in exploring the thrilling interpersonal dynamics of their favourite characters, it is not really so odd that everything beyond the favourite characters should so frequently turn out so colourless. The question is, does this matter? Isn't there a case for distinguishing between the B7 fan who simply wants to write about his/er favourite series, and those fans who have a joint interest in writing *in itself* as well as B7? I suggest that there isn't. Fan writers may have their particular spheres of interest, but they are still trying to write fiction. Just as fan artists do their best and try to come up with something a bit better than stick figures, so the writers take their work seriously and try to turn out good stories. That they don't always succeed just goes to show that writing isn't as easy as it's sometimes made out to be. There's a bit more to it than sticking one word after another. I'm not arguing for a body of fanfic that aspires to some kind of 'literary' merit. I just think that fan fiction could try harder to do what any kind of popular fiction does - to supply its readers with stories that are well written, have interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few surprises. Am I the only one who wants this from a B7 story? I hope not. -- transcribed by Russ Massey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:40:29 EST From: E van Looy To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: <> Ah, but that is the problem, isn't it? If it were easy to write interesting fictional characters, why, then everyone would be doing it. They are certainly trying, I'll grant you that but few series, books or films written and produced by even big names are able to make up characters and plots compelling enough to become classics, the way B7 certainly has. <> I'm glad you're so happy with popular fiction's offerings, but unfortunately I am not. I can think of few characters in popular fiction that have made a lasting impact on me. Even something so insanely great as, say, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, has rather poorly developed characters. Arthur what's-his-face and that guy from Betelgeuse hardly resonate as personalities even among die-hard fans. Frankly, for that reason I prefer my fanfic to stick to the tried characters. Every now and then you come across a writer who has thought up an original character, who just happens to be incredibly interesting and fascinating and full of depths begging to be explored. I mostly skip those explorations and hope the story will pick up later. Same with all those professional Star Trek novels, where we first get three chapters about Rohn Rohan who is a five- legged anthropodian lab assistant from a planet with inverse gravitation...it is rare that all those original characters are even half as spell-binding as the writer fondly imagines them to be. Elise ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:07:59 EST From: Bizarro7 To: pussnboots@geocities.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World Message-ID: <722536f.34bdfc21@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-14 13:15:47 EST, pussnboots@geocities.com writes: << Tyce had a strength of will equal to that of Avalon or Blake. She had the loyalty to stand by her president. She had the fortitude not to give up, no matter how long her vigil might last. She had the guts to pull a gun, tho she was no trained terrorist. She just needed a bit of training from Cally. Then look out, baddies! >> I've also been a great fan of Tyce and felt she'd have been an interesting addition to the crew. For one thing, I think she would have made a staunch defender of Blake against Avon's constant haranguing attacks on the Flight Deck. We started to do this in the sequal to Last Stand At the Edge of the World (Shadow at the Edge), and intend to carry forward with it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:06:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Independent newspaper (UK) Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Today's copy of the "Independent" has a feature on B7 (prompted by the new radio play). It's quite a nice feature, contrasting the optimism of Star Trek with the bleakness of Blake's 7, discussing fandom and the internet, mentioning the pitiful budget (of course) and generally being quite positive and affectionate. I didn't notice the words "sad", "anorak" or "trainspotter" at all, which was nice. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:00:44 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Bears (was upcoming excitement) Message-ID: <199801150901_MC2-2F65-6EE1@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Iain complained: >Come on, now, Julia posted this a couple of >days ago. Aren't any of the women out there >going to say how much they like bearded guys? Oh yes, sorry. I'll add my vote to Carolyn's (and Judith's I expect). It partly depends on the man and the beard, but on the whole I'm pro-beards, except when they've just been trimmed and scratch a bit. I am furious with my MP for shaving his beard off - I TOLD him not to last year when there was a rumour that New Labour wanted all its men clean-shaven. At the time, he agreed, but what a man will do for a junior minister's post. He looked so much better with his chin covered. Before you go to News of the World, I never sampled Keith's beard at close quarters. It was my OTHER MP who used to embrace me in the street, and he didn't have one. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:24:30 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] beards and the silly season Message-ID: <34BE1C1E.4E03@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit iain sez: Aren't any of the women out there going to say how much they like bearded guys? YYYYEEEESSSSS!!!!! I think ANY man looks better with a beard. Even drop dead guys like Sean Connery. Certainly Blake was improved in his one bearded appearance. Beards are totally masculine. Nice to rub up against - beats bristles any day. Particularly nice on bald men - double dose of masculinity. Strangely, though, I don't like beards without moustaches or moustaches without beards. I also like hairy chests. (On men, that is). I think I see male body hair as a sign of maturity. The hairless over-muscled Chippendales do nothing for me. One good thing about the silly season on tv - I get the chance to watch all my B7 tapes again. Drooool. Just watched the first few with Tarrant in them, and once again hated the character. And I STILL can't see any homosexual overtones between B and A. Fran M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:15:55 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: space-city@world.std.com, blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: SC: Attack of the Claypit People Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980115101555.006c56c8@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >ATTACK OF THE CLAYPIT PEOPLE > >by Neil Faulkner (from Altazine #1) Now, I find myself much more in sympathy with *this* essay -- meaning, I guess, that Neil and I have roughly similar standards for fiction and have both read enough stories that trespass upon them. That said, I'm going to start out by disagreeing with his first point: > B7 is science fiction, right? Er. Sorta. The thing is, not *all* SF is primarily concerned with imagined settings and scientific wonders and all that. A lot of time, SF is about exploring the human nature, and all the rest is just a setting to bring out whatever bit you want to work on. And I'd say that was particularly true for B7: >What's more, it's SF of the rather racy >variety, with aliens Aliens? You mean like the Auronar who can only be told from human by the score cards? Outside of Cally and Co., how often do we get a glimpse of an alien with a personality or a different way of looking at the world? Mostly they are simply stock Menaces, like the Guardians in Spacefall or the Andromedans or the blue people in Ultraworld. Actually the only exception I can think of right now is Zil. Going by the series, the B7 universe is pretty much devoid of interesting aliens -- so why should fanfic be different from the source? > and big spaceships and deadly weapons and a galactic >empire and everything. This they got. But so does most fanfic I've read -- the presence of the Lib and fed spaceships, and energy weapons, and the evil Federation are pretty much givens. Even when they aren't front and center, they are presumed to exist, as in, if Blake suggests a dangerous foray planetside, even if the author hadn't already explicitly referred to their weapons existing *we* know they do and will be donned. >Exotic worlds don't so much beckon as threaten to >splatt down on your head. Oh, come on, Neil! The "exotic worlds" of the series consisted of little more than A) abandoned quarries B) temperate zone forest settings C) ordinary looking sea coasts. I don't think you can honestly claim fanfic shows less imagination than the series on this score. That out of the way.... >Fan >writers show either a lack of interest in them (beyond their use as plot >devices) or an inability to develop these new creations to any meaningful >degree. Both, I'd say, but sometimes that is proper: not just the writer, but the reader will quite properly lack interest in them. Some characters are cardboard because they really aren't characters but part of the setting or maybe a prop. If Fed. Trooper Jones is in your story simply to stand unseen outside the cell door until three seconds before Cally blasts him while rescuing Blake -- well, why waste precious space in your story (and your reader's time) in giving him a name/personality/appearance/etc? OTOH, I agree that all too often the original characters who *do* have genuine roles to play in your story are also sadly unmemorable. > 1) He or she has no name. Instead he or she (usually he) is a Rebel, >a Section Leader, a Space Captain or a Scientist. (Gee, doesn't that fit an awful lot of the series guest stars?) > 2) If s/he does have a name, it's a very silly one. Female characters >are more likely to get a slightly sensible, just as they are more likely to get one >in the first place. Er. I don't know how you are judging "silly names." Is Og silly? Atalan? Tyce? Moloch? The Tharn? > 3) S/he has no ethnic background, nor indeed any kind of >background at all. The lucky ones get tagged with an age. This is as opposed to the rich and varied backgrounds, ethnic and otherwise, we were given for the characters in the series, right? Right. > 4) S/he walks around stark naked, and either suffers from advanced >alopecia or subscribes to a sixties bluebeat revival. I draw this conclusion >from the general lack of description of clothing or hair. Female characters >(again) are less likely to be skinheads, but are still heavily into streaking. > > 5) Male characters have bland and instantly forgettable faces that >obviously defy all attempts at description. Female characters are all waiting >for their chance to get on *Baywatch* (once they get their swimsuits - see #4 >above). Yes, the series didn't fail *this* way....but given that the episodes are visual they hardly can. I mean, most actors come complete with faces, eye and hair color, etc. and I'll bet the BBC mandated clothes..... I could go through your points about the planets and give examples where your failings were equally true of the series itself....but I admit this is quibbling. The hokey settings were forced on B7 for budgetary reasons that have no impact at all on fanfic -- there really isn't any reason that fanfic can't take advantage of the trillion dollar setting-generator in every reader's head by setting *this* story in a climate controlled bubble floating 100 miles deep in the liquid nitrogen seas of Maltrexa, where giant strands of semi-sentient colony beings drift by outside the plastiglass..... As to plots, yes, an awful lost of fanfic stories figure out ways to isolate one or two of the characters from the rest. This is usually a sign that A) the author wants to explore the character interactions of just those two or B) the author finds it difficult to figure out meaty roles for the whole crew. (Incidentally, the professional series writers often had that problem, too, which is why Jenna and Cally spent so much time behind the teleport controls.) I would argue that A is a valid type of story. That you see so many of them simply means there are an awful lot of fanfic writers who are interested in one-on-one interactions. A shame if you want to read about a gang interacting as they pull off some caper, er, a rebel raid on a Fed outpost...but that disappointment is due to your tastes and not the writers failings, imho. > 3) Aliens with a technology far too advanced for our feeble minds to >contemplate play jolly little mind games with the crew. Silly! That's *Star Trek*. >I'm not arguing for a body of fanfic that aspires to some kind of 'literary' >merit. I just think that fan fiction could try harder to do what any kind of >popular fiction does - to supply its readers with stories that are well written, >have interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few >surprises. Am I the only one who wants this from a B7 story? I hope not. Well, I will join you in this call for more "color" *except* if adding it would displace the special benefits of fanfic. Let's face it, first and foremost the reason for reading and writing fanfic is to get to spend more time with *these particular characters.* If I simply want to read "interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few surprises" I can pick up, cheap and convenient at any bookstore, virtually any book off the SF/Fantasy/mystery/western/action/suspense/horror/whatever genre shelves and find them all. The reason I pay $20 and wait a month or more to get a fanzine is because I want to read about *Blake and Avon and Cally and the rest.* If you shove them offscreen too long while you develop and showcase your interesting original character and setting, I for one will feel cheated. Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:24:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Disposition: inline Once again marching to a different drummer, I need to say that I found Tyce shrill and unappealing. I will admit it may be that I was prejudiced against her from the start because the writers deliberately suggested she was Sarkoff's lover long before admitting she was his daughter, which really ticked me off, because it seemed a gratuitous trick. My other problems with Tyce have to do with a personal dislike for the sort of aggressive, self-righteous hectoring behavior she used in attempting to get her father to be someone he wasn't any longer, ahd perhaps never was. And on reflection, I would say that I would probably have liked her if she had been ten or fifteen years older. It's hard to admire shallow people, and she struck me as shallow, regardless of her noble intentions and her intelligence. This is not to say she wouldn't be a wonderful addition to the crew. Particularly if Avon shared my view of her! Patti ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:05:15 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] :Upcoming excitement Message-ID: <34BC397B.7873@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Coleman wrote: > > > Don`t hold your breath! She is most definately not the kind of woman I > > would associate with Avon. > Au contraire, they make an excellent couple. OK, she's not the most > glamourous woman in the Federation, but she's quite nice looking and has > intelligence, wit and steely determination to match Avon's. I can > certainly see why someone like Avon would go for Anna. > Yes, with him intelligence, he would look for brains before beauty. Avon's such a techy geek he may not notice beauty at all; there's so much else on his mind. Also, he and Anna share the same first priority: the success of themselves, rather than of others. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:32:26 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 Message-ID: <34BC3FDA.15BF@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Coleman wrote: > Odd, isn't it? I guess it's because Avon is the cool, sardonic anti-hero, > whereas a lot of people see Blake as "too nice" or "too wimpy". But if you > look at his actions, rather than his manner, he's hard, ruthless and very > dangerous. I believe there is a story or fanzine titled, "Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know." I always found that *the* perfect description of The Triad fen love to write: Avon: Mad (angry? insane? take your pick!) Vila: Bad (need I say more?) ah, but it's Blake who is dangerous to know. odd that Vila stuck close to him, when to Avon he admitted, "I feel safe around you." For they shared the same sense of self preservation. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:15:59 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 Message-ID: <34BC3BFF.15C3@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NWOutsider wrote: re: > > You raise some interesting questions. Blake just didn't seem charismatic > > enough to have such a large following if his only gripe with the Federation > > was personal. > > 8-) I've always found this really funny: within the series > Blake is supposed to be very charismatic but within fandom it's > Avon who has the followers. Charisma is a strange thing. It's also called "star quality." And no, alas, Blake does not have it. I once had a boss - prez of a PR firm - who had charisma (she was also manic-depressive). But when she was manic - charismatic, I swear, we'd want to do *anything* for her. Charisma is like that. It makes you "want to." I once saw a truly dumb "sci-fi" movie about a bear that got atomic radiation and grew huge and grody looking. A large man, who looked remarkably like Gareth Thomas (but wasn't him) was trying to lead a group of people to safety thru the dark northwest forests while the "monster bear" was chasing them. But this man just exuded charisma, and I remember thinking "That's what Blake should have "felt" like." Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:54:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] The Way Back -- Charisma Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Disposition: inline Back before the Great Flood, when I was a Trekker, I went to a con to see Leonard Nimoy. I wasn't a big Shatner fan because I just had never been impressed with his acting and he wasn't my "type." I saw Bill on stage, however, and the man had presence. No matter what anyone else was doing, your eye was drawn to him, for no particular reason. It was astounding to me, because it didn't come across on television or in person one-to-one (the latter probably because he'd just as soon send fans to Cygnus Alpha). Anyway, the point is, I agree that charisma is a chancy thing. You can't learn it, and you can't buy it. Hence the astonishingly ineffective mass of infomercials. Some of those sales people might be able to get eskimos to buy ice, in person. To me, one of the most tragic things about Blake is that he might actually have had that charisma, that ability to make other people "want to" do things before the Federation messed with his mind. I never realized that until I started writing Blake from the inside, but it certainly changed the way I looked at him. Patti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:41:34 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] beards and the silly season Message-ID: <5LeuDHAuZmv0EwXJ@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <34BE1C1E.4E03@ozemail.com.au>, Fran Myers writes >iain sez: Aren't any of the >women out there going to say how much they like bearded guys? > >YYYYEEEESSSSS!!!!! I think ANY man looks better with a beard. Even >drop dead guys like Sean Connery. Certainly Blake was improved in his >one bearded appearance. Actually, having just seen Gareth in the panto, "Blake" looks pretty good with a white beard. > And I STILL can't >see any homosexual overtones between B and A. I had to have it pointed out to me on a frame-by-frame basis, but I did eventually give in - there are bits that can definitely be interpreted that way. As interest, if not your actual physical relationship. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:36:34 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World Message-ID: <0LFtzBACVmv0EwWr@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <722536f.34bdfc21@aol.com>, Bizarro7 writes > >I've also been a great fan of Tyce and felt she'd have been an interesting >addition to the crew. For one thing, I think she would have made a staunch >defender of Blake against Avon's constant haranguing attacks on the Flight >Deck. We started to do this in the sequal to Last Stand At the Edge of the >World (Shadow at the Edge), and intend to carry forward with it. > What? New novel? New novel? when? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:23:19 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980115201834.00bd7c58@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pat Patera wrote: >Charisma is a strange thing. It's also called "star quality." And no, >alas, Blake does not have it. Interesting. I always regarded Blake as having *lots* of charisma, and had no trouble at all understanding why people would follow him, even against their better judgement. I could feel it myself. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:38:28 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Beards Message-ID: <19980115.183111.13359.1.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> Yes, I confess. I love beards. I can do without hairy chests, and balding heads are even alright, but beards seem to snap me into the "look twice" mode. I didn't think Paul looked all that great, but then, he'd been tortured for days. Gareth, on the other hand...that make-up job they did on him in "Blake" would send me into the woods AFTER him. Peace, Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:37:34 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Thu 15 Jan, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > Once again marching to a different drummer, I need to say that I > found Tyce shrill and unappealing. I will admit it may be that I was > prejudiced against her from the start because the writers deliberately > suggested she was Sarkoff's lover long before admitting she was his > daughter, which really ticked me off, because it seemed a gratuitous > trick. Huh? I never saw that. I just assumed she was his bodyguard and that she knew him well. I never saw a sexual relationship implied. My other problems with Tyce have to do with a personal dislike > for the sort of aggressive, self-righteous hectoring behavior she used > in attempting to get her father to be someone he wasn't any longer, > ahd perhaps never was. I think she knew the man he had been, saw what despair had done to him, and wanted her father back again. There is no easy way to make someone turn from escapism to reality. I liked her. I saw her as brave and positive. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:00:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Beards Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks, my poor ego feels much better now. :-# (that's my pitiful attempt at a bearded smiley) (hmm, that sounds a bit rude) Iain -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #14 *************************************