From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #285 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/285 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 285 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor Re: [B7L] Vila's Past [B7L] Vila's Past - a short story. Re: [B7L] Vila's Past - a short story. Re: [B7L] Vila's Past Re: [B7L] Vila's Past Re: [B7L] FS:(US only) Childhood's End audio tape. Re: [B7L] Re: Blake and diversity [B7L] Re: Vila's past [B7L] Vila's past Re: [B7L] Re: Neil Faulkner on religion [B7L] Defending Blake's honour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:57:13 -0000 From: "Jennifer Beavan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As for Avon not being protective, his actions in Terminal were designed to > protect them(stress and exhaustion perhaps accounting for his readiness to > kill Tarrant; the other being that he knew that only if they truly believed > his threat might they not follow; even Vila has figured out Tarrant's bite > isn't all its made out to be.) But if he'd been truly protective - including self-protective - he'd never have taken Liberator through that cloud. The promise of Blake was simply more important Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:21:26 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor Message-ID: <64e6a8b4.364cb0e6@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-13 17:15:25 EST, you write: << But if he'd been truly protective - including self-protective - he'd never have taken Liberator through that cloud. The promise of Blake was simply more important >> Ahh, but he was being protective, even if it was of Blake. He seriously underrated the danger, agreed.(We've never hit an iceberg before, and if we do, we won't sink, and if we sink, we'll have plenty of time to abandon ship to other vessels...) But his concern for Blake was a legitimate one. Blake in the hands of person or persons unknown, even if he suspected Servalan, meant any deviation from the instructions could cost Blake his life. He did what he could to minimize the risk to the others, barrng the cloud factor. Had he not been concerned, he could have told them, knowing they would back his play, but putting themselves into what he considered unacceptable danger.(There are hints he expected to die on Terminal). Besides, you imply Blake was more important than the others. Nonsense! What more could he want than Vila and Cally? Deborah Rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:51:30 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-13 16:04:47 EST, you write: << Cup-and-balls I know about. What's "three card monte?" >> Three card monte is similar to cup-and-balls, but involves picking out a specific card (say the queen of spades) from among three that the dealer shuffles. Of course, by the time he or she stops shuffling, it isn't there any more because the dealer has substituted another one. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:18:17 +1100 From: "Katrina Harkess" To: "B7" Subject: [B7L] Vila's Past - a short story. Message-Id: <199811140120.MAA18858@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit First draft, attempt to explain how Vila might have learned certain talents. ;) -------------------- The delta warrens were a filthy place. The though passed through Rafe's head every time he was forced to come back to the crowded labyrinth of tunnels where the service grade who weren't live-in servants lived. But it was here that items could be disposed of and assistants found when needed. But at least he was on his way out… A child's hand tagged at Rafe's sleeve. Filthy and small, it belonged to a boy who initially looked about five. Long experience enabled Rafe's guess his age was closer to eight or nine. "Please?" The boy looked up at Rafe with miserable eyes, his face pinched from hunger. Rafe sighed and went to shake the child off. There were dozens of similar children cluttering the place. But a little tickle stopped him; the lad had managed to pick Rafe's pocket and had let go, pretending he had done nothing. A mumbled 'sorry sir' and another piteous look as the boy sidled away, galvanized Rafe into action. Longer legs were a definite help, he thought to himself as he managed to catch the lad. Having the kid half dangling from his hands he inspected him with distinctly more interest. A kid with fingers nimble enough to almost get away with picking Rafe's pocket was one he was interested in. "I think I'll have those credits back now, kid." he said quietly. "And then you can tell me where you learnt that particular talent. The lad handed back the credits with a shamed look on his face and mumbled something. "Now now, mumbling something is no good. Can't hear you. You'd be better off chattering away to bore someone instead." The gentle lecture wasn't what the lad expected and Rafe saw it in those now confused eyes. Well, I suppose it doesn't matter where you learnt it but as of a matter of fact, I'll be needing a helper with nimble fingers. Be interested?" The lad nodded, eyes wide and wary but very interested. Rafe chuckled and let the lad back on his feet, only keeping a light hold on one small wrist. "Won't be easy, kid. You'll be learning about locks as well as picking pockets and I'll be teaching you the carnival tricks to keep those finger nimble." They made their way together, back towards the respectable area of the dome where Rafe had his locksmiths' shop. "I'll be attending to a few other things too lad. The administration is fond of trying to psycho people they label as anti-social. I'll be teaching you the techniques to remain unaffected if you're ever caught. And you will be. Everyone is at some stage." Another moment of silence passed and then Rafe thought to ask the child his name." "Vila Restal." came back the clear answer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:16:27 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past - a short story. Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-13 20:22:00 EST, you write: << A mumbled 'sorry sir' and another piteous look as the boy sidled away, >> I can just see the young Restil in this shot. Lovely little story! Look forward to more?please?....... D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:31:45 PST From: "Edith Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past Message-ID: <19981114083146.22109.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hello to all: Last time, Allison wrote: Some of those lockpicking skills could not be learned by trial and error. Who could have trained Vila, and how? I could see him spying on someone -else- learning these things, but why would they be learning? Allison Hmmm... given some of things mentioned on B7- different sectors of society, outspread colonies doing this'n'that, could one image a sort of Dickinsen-like crime ring going on? Like, um, the lead thief in Oliver Twist? Fagan? Yeah, someone like Fagan teaching our darling Vila how to be a thief. As for having the resistance to drugs in the water, I posted a half assed slashy blurb on the Space City party a coupla months back. In it I suggested that their was something special about Vila's liver that screened out most psychotropic drugs- thus the ability to drink vast quanties of god knows what and still be alive. Would it be possible that Vila has a genetically mutated liver that protects him from substances? There is mention of Atomic wars; maybe his distant ancestors developed this to protect him? Oh why am I asking this? Maybe I should start a story! Edith :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:25:40 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Some of those lockpicking skills could not be learned by trial and error. Who > could have trained Vila, and how? I could see him spying on someone -else- > learning these things, but why would they be learning? > Allison Well, someone made the locks for a start. People like that often have links with the people who want to break locks. This happens with computer security too doesn't it? Also, people steal locks and build up collections of them and work on them. Plus older villains often make alliances with younger ones, for a variety of family and other reasons, and pass on their skills. And I guess there are only a limited number of types of lock, even in the future, and most are variations on the same basic devices. This is how bomb disposal skills are developed (I think). Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:17:53 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] FS:(US only) Childhood's End audio tape. Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reuben wrote: > I have an extra copy of the BBC production of Childhood's End. Stephen Pacy > does the main anrration in it. It's really quite enjoyable. I highly recommend this radio adaptation. While it deviates more than I'd like from the Clarke source material, it's an entertaining drama in its own right. Steven is exquisite in the starring role of the tragic Jan Rodricks. His descent into madness as he watches the destruction of the Earth is particularly memorable. Also, there's a great picture of Steven as Jan on the sleeve. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 01:04:30 +1000 From: "Taina Nieminen" To: "B7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake and diversity Message-ID: <023801be0fe2$aff09e00$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Avon doesn't really understand people at all, and I don't think anyone's >put forward a convincing example of him manipulating anybody. He _uses_ >people quite often, but that's not the same thing. > >Iain > Orac in Gambit, to get him to reduce his size. Taina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:25:33 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Vila's past Message-ID: <199811141025_MC2-6042-FE3F@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allison asked: >Who could have trained Vila, and how? Other criminals, I'd have thought. I imagine the equivalents of Fagin and the Artful Dodger were still around looking for new talent. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:09:49 EST From: SuzanThoms@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Vila's past Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << Harriet writes: << Other criminals, I'd have thought. I imagine the equivalents of Fagin << and the Artful Dodger were still around looking for new talent. >> This has always been my assumption. I've always envisioned Vila as a young Delta learning his trade from a Faginlike character. Then in and out of juvenile detention in his teens, all the while making new contacts and learning new techniques from fellow inmates. The impression being that there wasn't much future (careerwise) for Deltas in the Domes. Although, I've often wondered just exactly how "luxurious" the Alpha lifestyle really was. The corridors and areas of the Dome we see Blake travelling in "The Way Back" were (in my opinion) pretty dreary. Not much of a life that I could see. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:25:47 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil Faulkner on religion Message-ID: In message <000501be0f0e$bf29d0a0$82ba46c2@barny.ascada.com>, Gregory Graham writes >Also does anyone know if Nicola is "Down and Safe" yet? She's supposed to >be in Leeds about now but I haven't heard from her. Was in Darlington tonight, watching Gareth Thomas in _The Crucible_ -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:00:59 +1100 From: "Afenech" To: "lysator" Subject: [B7L] Defending Blake's honour Message-Id: <01531010969005@domain4.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been an interesting discussion! Reading it day by day my eye was often drawn to the header - why, I wondered, should it be necessary to defend Blake's honour? That there is any question about it suggests at its heart that there is doubt about the righteousness of his cause. But how can that be? Overwhelmingly, surely, the impression we have from the stories is that the Federation is evil and must be opposed. Is this in dispute? It may be for some, but not for me. And because it is not, because I agree with Blake's assessment of it, and empathise with his desire to see it defeated I do not question his righteousness. I have to admit that these discussions about Blake's purpose and means do somewhat defeat me. I agree with his stand completely, therefore feel that whatever he decides he must do is more than justified, yet still feel as uncomfortable as Cally with the decision to destroy Star One ( largely because Avon has provided him with a less drastic, viable - in my opinion- alternative). But perhaps it is just that the business of opposing tyranny is not one which can be argued neatly, it is far too complex. This is most evident if you watch the film 'Michael Collins' where the complexity is played out in reality (yes, yes, I know - what passes for reality in film, but nonetheless it provides insight based on a situation somewhat the same) there are the same dilemmas, men of good intention, fighting a righteous cause, resorting to methods which by any civilized standard are abhorrent. The film does not resolve any of these issues, perhaps because they are unresolvable, or perhaps because in the end they are beside the point? The point, for me anyway, is that some things simply *must* be opposed for their evil is self-evident and unarguable and if it is necessary to do evil so that a greater good may come well perhaps the usual morality does not apply? Is there a quote about the armies of evil being legion? Harriet do you remember? Even if there is not then in the context of 'Blakes 7' it is true enough. And Blake is but one against the legions. For me, because of this, much of what is considered objectionable in his methods is forgivable, for the sake of what he is attempting. As for the manipulative suggestions - well, manipulation suggests, at least to my mind, that those on the receiving end are unaware of it. I do not believe you can be manipulated if you are aware of the attempt. To my mind there is no-one aboard 'Liberator' who can be manipulated. None are unintelligent. Gan perhaps is naive, though even this is debatable, but none could be maneuvered into doing what they do not want to do by manipulation. They, as Avon observes, allow themselves to be led, for their own reasons. Just my perception of it. And I cannot see the manipulation in 'Trial'. They could have left him. They choose not to. We are not thinking of a group of naive idealists who might be manipulated into feeling sympathy for Blake's dilemma - at least three of the four are tough world-wise cynics, well armed against sentimentality. If they stay and save him it is, to my mind anyway, because they choose to, for whatever reasons, but not because they have been manipulated into making the decision. As for the lies - well, yes, he lies -smile- but I cannot help but remember the many bendings of the truth I resorted to with my argumentative children - you grow infinitely weary of the argument which often enough is for no better reason than the sake of the argument! But evasions of the truth notwithstanding once the mission is imminent they are not forced, cajoled, manipulated into helping him. The choice as always, as from the very beginning when he says 'I have told you what I am going to do, what you do is up to yourselves.' is theirs. Having worked for a long time in an organisation which withholds almost all information from its employees I do not feel Blake does to any significant extent - generally -smile- just my opinion. Pat Fenech. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #285 **************************************