From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #33 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/33 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 33 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] OK to send e-mail? [B7L] re: B7 as the Norse gods [B7L] The Federation's Constitution [B7L] Videos [B7L] game on ABC Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] more skyhooks [B7L] Pages Bar final reminder [B7L] Ian McDonald [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] Re: Videos Re: [B7L] The Federation's Constitution [B7L] vilafication [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] B7 fans and Myers-Briggs [B7L] Blake's 7 FANS & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Re: [B7L] more skyhooks [B7L] Guards, Guards Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 [B7L] Re: Time Squad Re: [B7L] Videos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:50:36 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980201234957.0100c898@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" DJ Wight wrote: >I'm not familiar with the Idealist/Rational/Artisan/Guardian >classifications, possibly due to my experience being more with Jungian >typology than MBTI as such, I hadn't run into that naming convention before, myself, but from the rest of Adam's post I figured it was just a reference to the four temperaments -- NF/NT/SP/SJ, respectively. >Blake: ENTJ. ENFJ isn't impossible, I'd put him close to the line >between thinking and feeling types I agree with that last. I've never been completely settled on one type for Blake, because I see him as close to borderline on both the T/F and the J/P scales. I do tend to put him a little on the F side rather than the T, based on his idealism, charisma, and emotional reactions, but agree that he's a bit ambiguous there and certainly not a strong F. >Vila: ESFP, maxed out on all dimensions! Yeah, not much to argue on this one. >Jenna: tentatively ESFP. Could say ISTP, because she's able to step >back and play the detached observer, and that's an ISTP quality, but >for me, it tends to look learned. Hmmm. I see her as more of a T; not strongly polarized, but solidly on the T side of the line. That cool objectivity she displays struck me as quite natural, though it might well be a learned survival trait that has become second nature. I have a hard time placing her on the E/I scale; maybe a little to the I side, but not much, and I wouldn't swear to it. Certainly an SP, though. >Cally: tentatively INFP. Condensing fast again: "Quiet observers, >idealistic, loyal. My first guess was INFJ, but thinking about it, I agree that INFP comes closer to the way she was throughout most of the series. I think she was originally portrayed as more of a J; the INFJs are more goal-oriented, more likely to be activists, as Cally in her guerrilla revolutionary persona. Otherwise, the two types are quite similar, and she seems to have drifted into the INFP camp pretty quickly. >Gan: ESFJ. Yes, that fits. >Dayna: ENFP or ESFP. Close to the line on S/N, but I'd >say a weak intuitive Agree she's close to the line; she shows both NF and SP traits. I see her more on the SP side, but might change my mind depending on which episode I've watched recently. >Soolin: ISF/TP. I have a hard time seeing Soolin as an F at all, though she may well have had much stronger F tendencies when she was younger. >INTP = 1-3% of the population, for which the remainder may be >thankful! Aw, I *like* INTPs. Of course, I'm an INTJ, which isn't too terribly different, and I'm strongly P-ish in certain circumstances. I can often sympathize with INTPs. (I also have a definite fondness for a couple of characters in other fandoms who are strong ISTJs. I run about 65%-75% N, but have enough lurking SJ tendencies to feel an affinity for those characters.) -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 02 Feb 1998 09:30:15 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] OK to send e-mail? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Julia Jones writes: > Which reminds me - we might be in for another round of the "Good Times" > hoax. Someone in British Steel fell for the "Join the Crew" variant > about 9:30 this morning I got it from my boss recently... *sigh* /Calle (86 mails read, 2008 to go...) -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 22:21:35 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: B7 as the Norse gods Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980202222135.007a4570@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Narrelle said: >>and Dayna could well be Diana. and Louise replied: >I don't think the name similarity is much of a coincidence - virgin huntress and all that. Ah, well I didn't think it was a coincidence either. I wrote a song about *that* link too, and in my intro commented that Diana was also meant to be a protector of animals. Which might explain a perfectly dreadful 4th season episode... :-) Have you ever read the story by Yvonne Hintz where the Greek gods land on Sarran and Zeus has the devil's own time trying to seduce Dayna by doing his usual trick and posing as different animals. She keeps shooting arrows into him by mistake... Relle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 22:37:13 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] The Federation's Constitution Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980202223713.007af890@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Because Australia is currently having a constitutional convention to determine whether or not we become a republic and, if so, under what model, the ABC (Aussie version of the BBC) has developed a great little site with some games etc for use in schools. One game, Simcon, enables the player to create a constitution which is then rated on a scale as regards to wealth, stability, trade, freedom and militarism. I decided to create a constitution as close as possible to the way I think Servalan would have wanted it :-) and I came up with a pretty fair rating for what the Federation was like (high on militarism, low on freedom, about middling in trade, wealth and stability). If you'd like to have a whirl, the URL is: http://www.abc.net.au/concon/games/simcon.htm You'll need the latest Shockwave plug in to play it. Relle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:16:26 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: Space City Cc: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Videos Message-ID: <199802020717_MC2-3190-994A@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A friend has just forwarded this to me: <> Is this the official new outlet for the videos? Or are they dealing in the old ones? Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:31:54 +0100 (MET) From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list) Subject: [B7L] game on ABC Message-Id: <199802021231.NAA07187@pampus.gns.getronics.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I played it to and got to: Totallitarian Dictatorship (ignore spelling errors if present) So that works out ok! Jeroen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII DJ, that was GREAT! What's an INTJ, the one Avon probably isn't? Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html "And so you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on television." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:39:24 +1100 From: "Roger The Shrubber" To: "B7 Main List" Subject: [B7L] more skyhooks Message-Id: <199802021349.AAA03278@budapest.ozonline.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AVON (IS JUST A DIRTY NERD) If I did not have an ego, I would not be here in flight, If I did not have an ego, I might not know that I was right If you did not have an ego You might not care that I'm the best If I did not have an ego I'd just be like the rest Avon is just a dirty nerd Avon is just a dirty nerd You can believe what you've seen and you've heard Well if Cally had an ego She'd still be alive today And if Cancer had no ego, She might not be in decay And if Travis had no ego He might not care too much who won And if Vila had an ego, He might just use a gun Some people keep their ego in a bottom drawer A limiter to keep you stable Have to step back And do what you're told You should be home watching cable So if you got an ego You better keep it in good check Suppress it almost daily Or you'll end up on deck Cos Avon, is just a dirty nerd You can believe what you've seen & you've heard. ******* PARTY TO END ALL PARTIES (ON GAUDA PRIME) There was a rumour on the FedNet The word had got around A revolution goin' on On the Blake side of town I said to Tarrant Do you wanna go Now Tarrant likes to party And I knew he wouldn't say no Well we got the right rebels But we got the wrong hunter Then like a shot in the dark We heard that thunder At the shootout to end all shootouts Wildest one in the book Shootout to end all shootouts Step in side & take a look Now angry Avon said to edgy Soo, I know exactly what we're gonna do We're gonna get Blake Gonna make him the man Revolutions stalling, We just have to make a stand At the shootout to end all shootouts The fight of the century Shootout to end all shootouts A riot in the first degree Shootout to end all shootouts Party on the wild side of Prime Shootout to end all shootouts We ain't ever gonna live this down A pile of corpses, They've been there for an hour The Feds had won, but their victory was sour, But Avon wasn't dead And he shot them all down Found his locksmith & a ship And then quickly left town ************ WOMEN ON SCORPIO *** yes i know these fems weren't all on Scorpio ! Hello there Cally Hi there lovely Soolin Good morning Dayna Welcome to the team Practical hairdo, clip-gun on the hip Sharp shooter Dayna , Don't you give her no lip, Took me to the range room for a target test And then back to her cabin for a weapons check Women on Scorpio Sometimes they look so cold Women on Scorpio But oooh, they feel so warm One more crazy mission We were flying back to Xenon Soolin she just made me feel Like I'm in heaven Checking out her console just to see what I could see, She leaned over, Whispered "Soma , tea or me" White apron & brown leather shoes The nurses on Chenga left my heart all bruised Tried to take my organs and then my life, Now they take my temperature Every night ! Commando raid on the Federation border Sergeant Kasabi, she gives the order, Khaki jacket and a big gun "Servie I surrender, let's have some fun" Daggy dull velour & mind reading, Bring me to my knees, A clip gun & a frizzy perm, Oooh she's such a tease, So grrrls, the geek you need, Just won't come across, Switch off his Orac and Show him who's the boss Women on Scorpio, Daggy dull velour Women on Scorpio Coming after you. ****** After the Women In Uniform triumph, this one doesn't really work, but here goes anyway Jenna Calling (from the London) You met her in a prison on a Saturday night She was drinking drugged water, Her skin was smooth but her face was tight You didn't think she'd get very far Though she mighta looked like a scared cat You wouldn't mind giving her rug-rats And you can't do it all on your own She wants to join your little revolution She wants to join your little revolution Hey Blake that's Jenna calling, Hey Blake that's Jenna calling, Get on her side & do a bit of talkin, Get on her side & do a bit of talkin, It was just too easy when you got to her cell And she kicked off her combat boots And you talked your plans about what you'll do, And now you got her on your crew Well you though that she'd be a one nighter, Now you know that she's a fighter, But you ain't safe till you break this cell Let her loose & she will give them hell Let her loose & she will give them all hell She sure knows when she's got a good cargo And she just won't let go She's been searchin' for the perfect payload Her ambition- gettin dough A Federation prison is a-waitin' for her But self-destruct is what she prefers, But you ain't safe till you break this cell Let Jenna loose & she will give them hell Let Jenna loose & she will give them hell ************ ___________________________________ ___________________________________ Darren r Comments are welcome ! powerplay@cheerful.com ____________________________________ Legal note - This message is void in China, USA, Iran and all other countries where free speech is prohibited by law. ______________________________________ "The Administration is out to get me" _______________________________________ "In the end, winning is the only safety" _________________________________________ "There are times when even confirmed cynics must trust to luck" ________________________________________ Was God an astronaut ? _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634 Anxiety & Panic _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html Blake's 7 FAQ & other free stuff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:37:34 +0100 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: space-city@world.std.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Pages Bar final reminder Message-Id: <29817054MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Final reminder for drink up at Pages Bar, Page St, London on Saturday 7 Feb. I'll be getting there about 5.30pm probably and will wear a B7 T shirt. What time are others planning on arriving cos I don't want to be there miles before everyone else trying to keep a table on my own? Some earlyish arrivals would be appreciated. For those who haven't been before, the nearest tubes are Pimlico, Westminster and Victoria and the 88 bus goes past the door. cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ Make your own tribble! Buy a hamster and cut off its legs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:38:42 +0100 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Ian McDonald Message-Id: <29817075MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Alex said: "Can anyone recommend any good science fiction novels?" Calle replied: "Anything at all by Ian McDonald (well, maybe not "Out On Blue Six"). In particular "Desolation Road" and "Necroville"." Oh I agree. Up till a year ago I hadn't read anything by him, but because he's a guest at Eastercon in Manchester this year, I decided to give him a try. So I read Hearts, Hands & Voices' and Sacrifice of Fools', both were excellent, especially Sacrifice. I must try Desolation Road'. cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ Make your own tribble! Buy a hamster and cut off its legs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 07:28:35 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980202072832.0068f548@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, This is Adam, again. I have given these characters A LOT of thought for several years. The problem that I have discovered with Myers-Briggs is that most people just don't understand the distinction of types very well. Especially people who are SP themselves, often believe that they are N because they think it's some added special ability and so they want to believe that they are N for status and ego reasons. The N function is actually an extremely rare function and people who are N are quite lacking in the sensory function. (This leaves Dayna out of it) Most of us are clutzes and have our head in the clouds. We sometimes don't see something if it's staring at us in the face. I've found some of the most sensory people out there thinking that they are intuitives. Go figure! Let me also say that the SJ is the most common type, and then the SP is the second most common. The SP, however, is the most diverse group of people of them all. You will find so many different kinds of people in the SP group. It is usually a safe bet that when in doubt about a person's type, they are usually SP. This is because the SP does show a form of intuition. But this is pragmatic intuition - being able to see patterns right in front of them. They make up a large potion of leaders of the computer age (a sensory tool). They sometimes mistake this for N, but it is NOT. One other thing I need to mention is that the Myers-Briggs indicator test is *usually* wrong. Even many of the people at Type Resources agree that there are very serious flaws in it. I have examined that test and have found way too many questions that can be answered from several different perspectives, thus altering the outcome of the indicator. Then what good is it, you may ask? Well, for one, it almost always assesses an SJ accurately. For two, it provides a framework for self-selecting types by comparing and contrasting yourself with that type and descriptions of other types that have one or two different functions. Now, after years of reflection, I have concluded that Servalan is an SP. There really is no way she can be any of the other types. I don't think there's any question about this one. She loves the power. Guardians like to lead for the good of the group, whereas she has her own plans for her own interests. She's too one-sided to be a rational. Yes, she can look at the "big picture," as many artisans can if it suits them, but I find her mentality nothing at all like mine or other NTs. I'm an ENTJ and a very typical one. I find very little NT about her. She's not interested in knowledge for its own sake like Avon is. So no, I don't think she's a rational. As for Blake, he is *definitely* an extraverted NF. Whether he's a P or a J, that is open. Famous NFs include Ghandi, Martin Luther King, & Florence Nightengale. But the thing that I find most fascinating about Blake's 7 is that it's the only series, as far as I know, to have an idealist as captain of the ship. (Jim Kirk was an SP, Picard was an NT/SJ (both) and Sheridan is a combination of all four, which is something else we call "hero," or a "perfect human." No one in real life can be a combination of two or more - you can only be one. Combinations are only found in fictional stories. Of course, none of the Blake's 7 characters are combinations. That is why these characters are so realistic.) Many people who watch Blake's 7 criticize Blake's captaining abilities. They say that he is a "stumble bumb" leader, who makes rash decisions and then sees where they will lead him. He is also bad at mobilizing his people to doing a task and then seeing to it that everything went smoothly. An example is in Seek-Locate-Destroy, when he inadvertantly left Cally behind without noticing that she was missing. His approach to leading his crew had direction, but it lacked details and it lacked a plan. He never accounted for emergencies that might arise along the way. That was his biggest downfall in almost all of the Blake's 7 stories. Idealists are supposed to be the least of the four temperaments that are likely to lead well. The unique aspect of Blake's 7 is that Terry Nation created for the first time a crew led by an idealist. Usually, spaceship captains on science-fiction sagas are artisans, guardians, or rationals. Blake had a goal - to destroy the Federation, which came from his idealism, however, if he had realized that he could accomplish that goal better if he relinquished control of the Liberator over to say, perhaps, Jenna (an artisan) or Avon (a rational), he may have had considerably more success. I find it a fascinating saying that Avon says in the final episode, Blake, "idealism is such a wonderful thing; all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." This, of course, meant that under Avon's leadership and Blake's role as a figurehead, the Anti-Federation Alliance could be unified and expanded. This coincidence is astounding. It is almost as if Terry Nation and Chris Boucher (the writer of that episode) knew about Myers-Briggs theory. -Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:58:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I reckon Avon is DNRC. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:21:15 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: Cc: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Re: Videos Message-Id: <199802021620.RAA28870@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harriet Wrote: A friend has just forwarded this to me: <> Is this the official new outlet for the videos? Or are they dealing in the old ones? Harriet ---------- They are rather expensive to be the old ones! £10.99 each plus p&p. He says they are getting them in the next 2 days - maybe I might get a couple, just to complete my collection.... I think I'll wait and see though. Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:16:12 -0700 (MST) From: The Doctor To: parallax@wire.net.au (Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris) Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The Federation's Constitution Message-Id: <199802021616.JAA01220@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Because Australia is currently having a constitutional convention to > determine whether or not we become a republic and, if so, under what model, > the ABC (Aussie version of the BBC) has developed a great little site with > some games etc for use in schools. > > One game, Simcon, enables the player to create a constitution which is then > rated on a scale as regards to wealth, stability, trade, freedom and > militarism. > > I decided to create a constitution as close as possible to the way I think > Servalan would have wanted it :-) and I came up with a pretty fair rating > for what the Federation was like (high on militarism, low on freedom, about > middling in trade, wealth and stability). > > If you'd like to have a whirl, the URL is: > > http://www.abc.net.au/concon/games/simcon.htm > > You'll need the latest Shockwave plug in to play it. I hate to say this, but look at republics today and Servalan; IHMO THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! > > Relle > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris > parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax > "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; > by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Smith To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] vilafication Message-Id: <199802021622.KAA27134@utopia.micro.ti.com> Lorna writes: > > Might I add that it's also unnecessary to vilify *any* of the characters. That's right - we already have one Vila. No need to make any of the other characters into Vila by Vilifying them. Which is half a joke, but halfway a serious linguistic observation - Vila does bear the brunt of most of the verbal abuse, or vilafication, on the show. Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:27:30 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980202092727.0068c0b8@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There's one other thing I forgot to mention. Sorry for the second post so soon. DJ said that the INTP makes up 1 to 3 percent of the population. You probably got this figure from a MBT resource. Well, I'm willing to say right now, that this figure is impossible because NTs only make up 3% of the world's population, and there are four forms of NT: INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, ENTP. NFs make up 2%. they are *extremely* rare people. SJs make up 45%, and SPs make up 40%. There are *much* fewer Ns in the world than MBTI literature claims. This is primarily because the world doesn't need very many Ns. The S function, however, is very needed. One of the best books on the subject of Myers-Briggs is "Please Understand Me" by David Kiersey. I found it to be the most accurate. I also feel like I appeared as if I was beating up on SPs in my last letter. Quite the contrary! In fact, I respect SPs a lot and I very much wish that I can be more like them. They have all the fun in life and know how to do things that as an NT, I really wish I could do. They are the movers and shakers of our world. They are also great to have around in emergencies! NTs value competence, and if there's one thing that SPs have, it's competence. I respect that and envy it. My problem with SPs, however, is that they just don't get it sometimes! -Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:00:22 -0000 From: Alison Page To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] B7 fans and Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <886435468.2027557.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa, Alex, DJ et al - Thanks for telling us about this - very fascinating. I love to learn about a new thing. I note that I am apparently also an NTP - though extrovert of course - and I started to think whether this was a typical SF-fan classification. So I was wondering if this classification could also be applied to Blake Seven fans, as well as B7 characters. BTW I know this classification system is a serious and legitimate thing - I've just been reading up about it, and I'm impressed. I'm just playing about with it here, and oversimplifying for a laugh, but I'm not being disrespectful. I notice that fans are very diverse, and fanfiction reflects this diversity. As I say I think NT's (rational/ choleric) - interested in ideas - are typical SF fans, who probably read and watch a lot of other SF material as well as B7. I would guess we are also the ones who are bothered by the scientific and other mistakes in the scripts, and complain vocally. And argue on the spinlist. On the other hand SP's (dionysian/artisan/sensualists) are probably more interested in the physical interactions between the characters and combine B7 fandom with other relationship-based fandoms, may even be slash writers. Highlander anyone? SJ's (guardians/traditionalists) would I guess be the ones most likely to have strong preferences among the characters and to perceive moral failings in the characters they dislike. They would see Blake (or Avon, or Jenna..etc.) as 'wrong'. I see the recent vilification debate as very much the province of the SJ's. Oh - I would also guess that these fans are the ones who know the canon most comprehensively, including the names of the minor characters and actors. You know who you are out there! NFs (idealists/spiritual) would be the people who find a strong moral theme to B7, and compare it to 'literature' - I know I can also go this way myself. These are also perhaps the people who 'love' B7 the most. I would say these are the people who don't compare B7 to other TV shows, and don't have other fandoms, but read a lot of books. Perhaps classics, perhaps fantasy, or both. They cry when they watch 'Blake' Now tell me about it. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:18:03 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 FANS & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <886414837.102136.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa, Alex, DJ et al - Thanks for telling us about this - very fascinating. I love to learn about a new thing. I note that I am apparently also an NTP - though extrovert of course - and I started to think whether this was a typical SF-fan classification. So I was wondering if this classification could also be applied to Blake Seven fans, as well as B7 characters. BTW I know this classification system is a serious and legitimate thing - I've just been reading up about it, and I'm impressed. I'm just playing about with it here, and oversimplifying for a laugh, but I'm not being disrespectful. I notice that fans are very diverse, and fanfiction reflects this diversity. As I say I think NT's (rational/ choleric) - interested in ideas - are typical SF fans, who probably read and watch a lot of other SF material as well as B7. I would guess we are also the ones who are bothered by the scientific and other mistakes in the scripts, and complain vocally. And argue on the spinlist. On the other hand SP's (dionysian/artisan/sensualists) are probably more interested in the physical interactions between the characters and combine B7 fandom with other relationship-based fandoms, may even be slash writers. Highlander anyone? SJ's (guardians/traditionalists) would I guess be the ones most likely to have strong preferences among the characters and to perceive moral failings in the characters they dislike. They would see Blake (or Avon, or Jenna..etc.) as 'wrong'. I see the recent vilification debate as very much the province of the SJ's. Oh - I would also guess that these fans are the ones who know the canon most comprehensively, including the names of the minor characters and actors. You know who you are out there! NFs (idealists/spiritual) would be the people who find a strong moral theme to B7, and compare it to 'literature' - I know I can also go this way myself. These are also perhaps the people who 'love' B7 the most. I would say these are the people who don't compare B7 to other TV shows, and don't have other fandoms, but read a lot of books. Perhaps classics, perhaps fantasy, or both. They cry when they watch 'Blake' Now tell me about it. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 11:40:44 -0000 From: rherfind To: " blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Calle Dybedahl wrote: > > Pat Patera writes: > > > Dune went to 9 books?! > > No. Herbert died while writing number seven. And unlike Hubbard, death > actually made him *stop* writing. Hubbard had actually finished the books (I recall hearing), but many of them ended up being released after he passed away. The reason for the late releases being marketing (i.e. evenly staggered releases sell better than 10 books just being dumped on the market at once). If some of you have never read the Mission Earth Series (10 books). It is well worth it. I went through it the first time in about 2 weeks my freshman year in high school (needless to say my class notes during that time were quite poor). I have read it several times since and enjoy it every time. I don't always agree with his portrayals, but who says that should hinder one's enjoyment. It also makes a nice comeback to Scientology. "Have you read Dianetics?" "Yes, L. Ron Hubbard is a great FICTION writer." Tends to shut them up when you've read more of his works then they have. (Appologies to any offended Scientolgist. I'm not biased, I think all religions are silly- New appologies to any offended Christians, Muslims or religious people) Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:57:31 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980202145424.00d40ea0@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" While messing about on the web today I found that Keirsey (of the previously mentioned book _Please Understand Me_ and other M-B related stuff) has a website at . Worth checking out; he's got his Temperament Sorter test there (the only place on the web where it's actually authorized to be), plus a new Character Sorter test which is in a different format. I took the new one; I'm still INTJ. (No surprise there, since I'm quite a strong INTJ.) Anyhow, those of you who are looking into this might want to check out his site. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:20:51 -0700 From: "John J. Doherty" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980202142051.007be720@gemini.oscs.montana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:48 PM 1/31/98 -0000, Alison Page wrote: >Heather 'insert text here' Smith said - > >> Not wishing to sound disrespectful in anyway, but who the hell are LDS? > >I was thinking the Church of the Latter Day Saints = Mormons. Is that >right? > Right. Though any members of the church I have dealt with think of Mormon as a kind of insult. Penny might be able to address that. The full name is the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints, which is a bit of a mouthfull for most people, so it is commonly abreviated to LDS. At least commonly in southern Montana, bordering as we do eastern Idaho (a big LDS community) and having Utah between me and where I want to be -- Northern Arizona if you are interested. A cult, if I remember the definition, is by necessity exclusionary. Members are cut off from any and all outside influence. Their beliefs are secret (to an extent) and revealed in stages. They are usually accused of brain washing. Admittedly, most religions are exclusionary, and some only reveal their major secrets to an initiate few. That kind of makes the villification LDS underwent a hypocrisy, but when has THAT ever stopped one religion from attacking another -- LDS really came about in the WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) heartland of America. In current times, LDS is a realtively conservative religion, making it very easy to attack. For the record, I'm not LDS, but I don't run and hide when the missionaries come knocking. Vargas's religion would be better compared with Scientology (or at least what we know of it from the Internet-based "revelations" about it). Mind-control is the big thing, and the drug is the best mind control you can get. -- John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:04:24 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] more skyhooks Message-ID: <7v9u6HAIbi10EwEE@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <199802021349.AAA03278@budapest.ozonline.com.au>, Roger The Shrubber writes >AVON (IS JUST A DIRTY NERD) plus other great tracks from Skyhook's Greatest Hits. Since I could well be the only UK resident on this list to own a copy of said album, shall I try and remember to bring a tape along to Neutral Zone & Deliverance so the rest of the Brits can hear what these should sound like? Come on, then, let's have the words for the tracks that were banned from broadcast in Australia. I'm sure some of the members would like to hear Smut... -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:26:13 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Guards, Guards Message-ID: Found this in alt.fan.pratchett tonight - more tour dates: w/c 18/5/98 Theatre Royal, Hanley w/c 25/5/98 His Majesties Theatre, Aberdeen w/c 1/6/98 Kings Theatre, Edinburgh w/c 8/6/98 Hexagon Theatre, Reading w/c 15/6/98 Civic Theatre, Darlington Check out the web page at http://www.uktw.co.uk/info/guards.htm for more information, tour dates, booking info and ticket sales even. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:39:45 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Spin" Cc: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reuben wrote: > If some of you have never read the Mission Earth Series (10 books). It > is well worth it. I went through it the first time in about 2 weeks my > freshman year in high school (needless to say my class notes during that > time were quite poor). I have read it several times since and enjoy it > every time. I don't always agree with his portrayals, but who says that > should hinder one's enjoyment. Oh dear - no no no. I managed to actually finish the first one, and it was so awful. It was even worse than EE "Doc" Smith, and in exactly the same way, which is really quite impressive. Just complete junk. It was even badly written, which at least Smith's books weren't. I'd be willing to bet Elron started writing them when he was ten, judging by the standard of writing. And that one book was longer than most of Smith's multi-volume series put together. Just don't. Then again, I couldn't wade through Lord of the Rings, but hammered through Covenant, so some of you might love it. It's nothing like LotR, though - the only thing they share is length. Otherwise, they are complete opposites. This has been sent off to the spin list, BTW. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:05:56 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison said: > Oh of course, Sue is right, Cally = Kali. And as Louise says, Dayna = > Diana. (Well, it was me wearing my Louise disguise, but I quibble) > This must mean that Jenna = Juno. After all she is almost the definition > of the physical type known as Junoesque. Very queenly. > > Hmm.. perhaps they had given this naming scheme up by the time they got > to Soolin, or am I missing something obvious? Personally I think they > could have named her after the Amazon Queen - what was her name? (looks > it up) Hypolita. Nothing like Soolin. Well, in one of his films (which one has completely fled my mind - it might even be Enter the Dragon), Bruce Lee's sister is called Su Lin. She's small and lethal, too. Not lethal enough, unfortunately - she gets killed by a horde of henchmen, thus launching Bruce on a one-man mission to avenge blah blah blah. I don't think this was an influence, though. I just happened to spot it. Any famous gunslingers named Susan or Linda? Only female gun fighter I know of is Annie Oakley. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:18:39 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Time Squad Message-ID: <19980202.181542.3319.2.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> My favorite line from Time Squad: Vila: I should hate to be eaten by something stupid. It may be my favorite Vila line from the whole series. I'm not sure. Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:51:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Videos Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Mon 02 Feb, Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > A friend has just forwarded this to me: > > < releases of the B7 videos > > John Fitton (International Mail Order) 1, Orchard Way, Hensall. Nr Goole. E > Yorkshire DN14 0RT England > Fax Orders + 44 (0)1977662501 (add international code) > Phone orders + 44 (0)1977661048 (add International Code) > E Mail john@jfitt.demon.co.uk > www.netlink.co.uk/users/jfitton/johns.html (full catalogue) > One of the best selections of Dr Who, Star Trek. Star Wars. X Files Babylon > 5 etc. merchandise anywhere Visa/Mastercard accepted>> > > Is this the official new outlet for the videos? Or are they dealing in the > old ones? I'd wait. Horizon say they will be stocking the new videos soon and I'd give them a fair chance of negotiating a discount. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #33 *************************************