From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #60 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/60 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 60 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: safety Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Re: body count Re: [B7L] Re: Vila & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Con weapon rules (was re: Deliverence) Re: [B7L] re: Deliverance Re: [B7L] Grandstanding Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Re: [B7L] Safety [B7L] Re: Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Re: [B7L] Re: safety Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test [B7L] Myers-Briggs and Deliverance Re: [B7L] Myers-Briggs and Deliverance Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test [B7L] Re: [B7] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Re: [B7] Vila and the Myers Test [B7L] Re: Meyers-Briggs Testing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:29:07 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety Message-ID: <199802232229.RAA12238@yfn.ysu.edu> Judith wrote: >Tarrant might well have chosen the 'die together' option. Dawn of the Gods >suggests this. (Though I'd happily shoot the script writer for making Avon so >stupid as to think he could survive a black hole by being a in space suit!) Well, "Blake" suggests that Tarrant wasn't too obsessed with "die together." He told Avon to shove off, that there was no sense in both of them dying. I think his reaction in Dawn was more dismay that Avon, the supposed leader, would put his own safety before his crew. I'm sure Tarrant approved of the order in which they abandoned "Scorpio." The crew members who didn't have leadership responsibilities went first. One can't be sure, but I think Tarrant would have spaced himself to save Dayna, Soolin, or Vila (if he couldn't figure out how to save them both) in "Orbit." At the very least, he'd go for a drawing of straws with Avon. But if Avon stalked him, he might not be so generous. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:32:14 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Message-ID: <199802232232.RAA12624@yfn.ysu.edu> Avona wrote: >Just a thought about not running into a hole in the ground, doing your >research first... your ship has crashed, the planet has ground troops >and bountyhunters looking for you. A hole in the ground with a supposed >friend would be the safest place to go... assuming your other friend >doesn't bolt out while you're bolting in and tell you you've been >betrayed. But Avon didn't know there was a supposed friend in that hole in the ground. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:46:34 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223114634.00d2f978@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> Tramila takes her bottle of Soma and joins Vila on the Liberator couch to >>> sleep the day away in idle, unfocussed activity. > >Can anyone join in?? Save me some!! Sure Jay. Tramila passes the Soma bottle. Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:50:34 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: body count Message-ID: <199802232250.RAA14213@yfn.ysu.edu> Sue wrote: > If she's a rebel and knows what Blake's up to, then perhaps >Blake figured she knew how to take care of herself . If an unarmed >and wounded guest on Liberator got away from him, Blake would >certainly rely on his companions to handle the situation. If Klyn is >a civil servant then I assume she's noticed that she works in a place >teeming with vicious criminals and has been trained to get out of >the way, but didn't. I also don't see why Blake should suppose that >Avon is going to storm around the base opening fire on everything >in sight without thinking. I don't think that's compatible with the >Avon Blake knew, and Blake doesn't have the advantage of viewing third >and fourth season episodes. I don't see why you hold Blake accountable for >every action that happens, or could possibly happen, in the base, why you >hold him accountable for everyone else's actions, or why he should be >held to Nostradamus-like powers of prophecy about who is going to do what. I don't think we're going to ever agree on this. But I also kind of think that Blake would agree with me. That he'd feel responsible for Klyn. > You assumed she was a rebel. For me, unless she's definitely >one of Blake's people, she goes in a different column in the ledger. >She may or not be a rebel. We just don't know. There's nothing the matter with each of us having our own accounting system. Harriet has been sharing some fascinating Cricket information that suggests there are lots of individuals keeping their own sets of Cricket records. > It seems to me that at the point Tarrant runs away, Blake has >already decided that Tarrant is one of the good guys. What I find ironic >is Blake's instincts have become so spotty. He was never very trustful >to begin with but his judgments were always right until this episode. You'd know that better than I would. I'll trust a Blake spotter to have that correct. I have to think that Blake hadn't had an easy time of it between "Star One" and "Blake," because he is so very different. Not that I don't appreciate the changes; he's a fascinating man in "Blake." > But there were options that Avon chose to ignore. And by focusing >solely on the last minute, the big decisions that Avon made early on are >ignored and the result is tendency by many to blame the dead. I wanted to >point out that there were many times when Avon, who made the big >decisions, had it in his power to change the course of what happened. No >one else's decisions are as important. Avon decided to go to GP without >knowing anything, Avon decided to barge around the base and kill people >without knowing anything. Again, we are simply never going to agree. Blake also had options which he ignored. >>Now, Sue, does that honestly sound like something Avon would do? > > Yes, but with better dialogue, as I'm sure you knew. Avon >has used covert communications to set up plans in advance before Yep, but the key is "set up plans." I can't see Avon calling Blake just to chat. We don't know if he had a plan when he went to GP, or if he was just "running away with dignity." > Either safety is not as important to Avon as you think it is, or >he believes that "winning is the only safety" and his best chance for >winning is with Blake. I prefer what you suggested: that Avon really hadn't thought out why he was going to GP or what he was going to do when he got there. And if he had thought it, he wouldn't have gone. >>I understand. If Tarrant had died in Scorpio, averting the misunder- >>standing, would you at least keep the cheers restrained? ;-) > > I make no promises. [note to self: have champagne crates delivered >to back door] Well, at least you aren't toasting his demise with Boone's Farm. >>I see. It's believable for Avon to be broken up over Blake, but >>amusing if he's broken up over Tarrant. Or am I misinterpreting? > > Unlikely he's broken up over Tarrant. OK, and also amusing. I take consolation in the fact that Avon obviously thought more highly of Tarrant than you do. It must be hard to watch Avon trust Tarrant over Blake in "Blake" if Rojer Rebel is your favorite character. I'd probably be in denial if it had gone the other way. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:28:19 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Vila & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223112819.0070bf08@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > But the reason NTs end up quite a bit on lists such as these is >because NTs enjoy long, drawn-out discussion. Which is why this list is so shocking to me. This is only my second encounter with a list who enjoys long drawn-out discussion. I've been on a ton of different lists but usually they people answer short, cute hit and run answers to a post. You can pretty much tell an >SP from their e-mails. They hate writing a lot because it's not thrilling >enough for them. They are the ones who coin phrases such as FAQ, BRB, FYI, >etc. oh and don't forget ROTFLMAO and YKYBWTMB7W he he Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:54:30 -0600 From: "Reuben Herfindahl" To: "B7-list" , "Nicola Collie" Subject: Re: [B7L] Con weapon rules (was re: Deliverence) Message-ID: <034501bd40ae$03d5c3b0$660114ac@misnt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As far as injuring someone, you could just as easily damage >someone with a heavy book as with a Liberator handgun replica. >Just curious >ttfn, Nicola Totally off topic here, but does anyone know where one could get ahold of a good replica of the gun that the Thals used in Planet of the Daleks or that appeared on that other Nation show, what was it's name ;-) Actually I would like to know where to get ahold of one. Reuben reuben@reuben.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:59:16 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Deliverance Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223115916.00d321cc@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Seconded - wholeheartedly. Someone who quite happily *shares* Paul at >conventions and theatres with fans (well she does get to take him home >afterwards!!). She isn`t patronising when talking to you, even though >she knows, and you know she knows, that you are there (conventions or >theatres) purely because you *fancy/love/lust/drool* (if they are the >correct terms :-)) after her husband. On come now, Jackie. Would a fan do that? That's nice to know that she is so confident in her husband. How warm and fuzzy that makes me. It's great to know that that is the way it is. Tramila, who has encountered scary fans in the past and feel sorry for the stars. Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:08:09 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Grandstanding Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223120809.00d36834@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pat P wrote: >PS Does this let Tramilla off the hook for further elaboration on her >grandstanding remark?>>>> Jackie wrote: >I am prepared to relent :-). Sorry for zapping you, Tramila. No problem. I getting better now. It's just that it has be many years since I have seen the series and my memory isn't great. Also, I'm not a great debater like the majority of the group. I joined, apparently, just after the great B7...Sime~Gen discussion. Too bad, it was over before I got to add my $0.02. In any case, I decided to stay for a while. It's been great. I've really enjoyed the list. I even pulled out a tape yesterday to look up the name of a planet. WOW. That is something I usually wouldn't do. You guys have inspired me. >I was grandstanding at the time. LOL HUGS. That's OK. Friends? Tramila Farris ambrov Zeor First Order Channel currently assigned to Bender Cove Sime Center. Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:54:21 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223115421.006c072c@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jay wrote: > >>I think we like a character because they are different from us. > >Except that in every fandom I've ever been in, the characters I like best >are the characters who are =most= like me. I'm the most like Vila. >This holds true in other fandoms as well; some characters are, >personality-wise, near exact matches (there's one character in particular >who, 99% of the time, I can write by thinking "What would =I= do?"), and >some are farther off, but all in all, the characters I like are ones I feel >a strong sense of identification with. Oh do tell who this character is. Please. I'm dying of curiousity. Personally, I think I could write LaCroix with my eyes closed. After all, I AM a Cousin. Going back many years, I think when I tried to write my one and only B7 story, Avon was the easiest for me. Vila was much more difficult because....well as you can see, I am not really verbose and Vila, when he gets nervous, talks a lot. Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:38:00 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223113800.006a7090@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison wrote: >Well I am an extrovert (ENTP) and I *love* Vila. I'm absurdly far gone in >that direction. A kindred soul. >> Oh and BTW. I am here to stand up for Vila. >> > because she is truly scared.> > >Tramila, perhaps I haven't made the point strongly enough on this list >(because it's a mixed type of list) but you are *certainly* not alone. All >that stuff about chucking Vila out the airlock doesn't mean I don't love >him. Well, I know that but.... my heart just cries out to Vila when I think that Avon, the person Vila trusted, looked up to, and stayed close to so that he could point the finger and say, 'He did it." would turn on him. (Hummmm. that didn't quite come out the way it was supposed to.) >> Tramila >> Chapter Member and Pres of VICE >> Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element > >The one I suggested on Space City was Ensure Vila Isn't Lonely. I like that but I really don't think Vila is Evil. He's cute and cuddly and someone to be protected from Blake, Avon, and Tarrant. >> Take pity on this poor ESFJ. She's very like Vila. >> Tramila takes her bottle of Soma and joins Vila on the Liberator couch to >> sleep the day away in idle, unfocussed activity. > >I always wonder - do we prefer a character because they are like us, or >because they are different? I sometimes think I like Vila just because he >is different from me. Vila is very different from me in many ways even if I said above that we are the same. For one, I could never be a thief. I'm scared sh*tless of the law. On the other hand, I am like him because I hide. (not in a bottle, BTW) Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:38:54 -0500 (EST) From: brent@ntr.net To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Message-Id: <199802232338.SAA24740@rome.ntr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:15 PM 2/22/98 -0800, you wrote: >> AVON: "Is it true?" >> BLAKE: "Avon, it's me, Blake." >> AVON: "Stand still." >> >> Blake momentarily stops moving. >> >> AVON: "Have you betrayed us? Have you betrayed me?" >> >> During the next exchange, Blake underestimates the danger he is in and >> starts walking toward Avon. >> >> BLAKE: "Tarrant doesn't understand. I set all of this up. Avon, I was >> waiting for you." >> >> Bang, bang, bang. Helen wrote: > I think a "Yes" or "No" question is best answered "No," before any >further explanation is given. Especially when you're pressed for time >because someone called security. I think Blake was not simply overcome, but overwhelmed by the sight of Avon after so long. Blake doesn't know what Avon has been through. The last contact he has had with Avon is at the end of Star One where he told Avon that he always trusted him. In the meantime, it could be argued that Blake saw Avon as being a carrier of the torch while Blake was away from the Liberator and the crew since Avon kept fighting the Federation. Blake is happy to see Avon and obviously wants to plant a bearhug on him. I'm not saying Blake is showing a high level of intelligence at this point, I'm only stating what I see as his motivation. >Just a thought about not running into a hole in the ground, doing your >research first... your ship has crashed, the planet has ground troops >and bountyhunters looking for you. A hole in the ground with a supposed >friend would be the safest place to go... assuming your other friend >doesn't bolt out while you're bolting in and tell you you've been >betrayed. Tarrant never knew Blake. He was VERY wounded and maybe hallucinatory and I'm sure Avon would have taken what Tarrant said with a grain of salt even if Tarrant had been in good health. Remember, Tarrant's love (Zeeona) was sent to her death just prior to Gauda Prime (I AM NOT BLAMING AVON FOR HER DEATH--just the fact that Avon goaded her into going-- a fact which Tarrant may resent Avon for--if only slightly and subconsciously), so Tarrant would like nothing more for Avon's love (brotherly, not erotically) be unmasked as a traitor. >Oh, right; Avon should let himself be killed and give himself a moral >victory, just like in Orbit. I keep forgetting what Avon should do. Am I missing something? I never said what Avon should or shouldn't do, just what he did and my interpretation of events. In the case of Orbit, I hinted at other options. Now I will sing the praises of Avon, for in rewatching "Blake" I have another theory as to just why Avon is so suspicious of Blake. Throughout "Blake" it is established that Blake is no longer sure of who he can and cannot trust. Everyone must go through rigorous testing before he can be sure (and yet he still fails because Arlen slips through his safety net). Blake no longer has the ability to tell friend from foe, whom he can trust from whom he cannot, when he is in true danger and when he is not (a metaphor for his inability to clearly see these things could be that cool scar that hinders the vision of his left eye. The left eye is partially closed, tired if you will. He has been doing this too long to be as effective as he once was; he no longer sees things as clearly as he once did). Avon, however, is suspicious of everyone, even after they repeatedly prove themselves to him. When confronted with Blake, Avon spots Blake's comrade Arlen and reads her like a book (hell, she isn't even dressed like anyone else in the installation, not Klynn, Deva, Blake, or anyone. Instead, she wears what any good Federation officer might wear on a night out on the town!). Avon sees Arlen for that smug Federation officer that she is. Why doesn't he shoot her? He doesn't care about her--it's Blake's "betrayal" that he is concerned with, after all, getting off Gauda Prime is going to be a bitch without the Scorpio and capture or death seem imminent. Besides, Avon may feel honor bound to deal with Blake since the Blake Avon last knew would want Avon to act as his executioner should he ever become turncoat--Avon is only doing what the "old" Blake would want him to do (if this were the true situation). After Blake's death, Avon is in a temporary paralysis as he realizes his mistake--Arlen was with Blake, but Blake wasn't with Arlen. Of course, this is just my own speculation. And forgive me if this idea has been put forth before--I'm aware of the srutiny that "Blake" has been put under by the fans and I wouldn't be surprised if my theory is only a reinvention of the wheel. Brent (trying to set a record for the longest b7 list paragraph) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:36:24 -0800 From: Julia Jones To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Message-ID: <888277219.20540.0@jajones.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Nicola Collie > And I wouldn't either, even if his breath was sweeter than that of my > beloved, and he wasn't approximately the same age as my father :). It's > _Avon_ who gets my hormones going, and PD's not the same person. Although > he does bear an uncanny physical resemblance ;). And I'd be very interested > in meeting him (and the rest of the cast) if the opportunity arises. I'm quite capable of distinguishing actor and character. Paul's some months older than my father. And the ashtray factor would certainly inhibit me from wanting to snog him. Nevertheless, I still found myself collapsing into a wobbly heap of hormones when I first met him at a con about 18 months ago. Avon's sex appeal is not just the leather and snarl... Quite apart from the hormone factor, he's an extremely entertaining con guest, and well worth going to see. And it's only five weeks until I get to see him on stage in Guards, Guards, oh joy... Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:05:47 -0500 (EST) From: brent@ntr.net To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake Message-Id: <199802240005.TAA18057@rome.ntr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention: Why is it that Blake could no longer tell whom he could trust? Because he no longer had Avon with him. The first two seasons occurred directly AFTER Blake had been reawakened from his programming--the Federation and society had changed a lot since his mental exile. Avon was his voice of reason and when Avon was gone, Blake no longer had the ability to read people and situations the way he could when Avon was there--the scar on his face is evidence of at least one close call--a close call that might not have happened if Avon, in all his cynical wisdom, had been around. If, as evidenced by Avon's actions toward the end of season four, Avon was losing it, then I would argue that Blake, too, was losing it in his own fashion--which was the entire catalyst for the showdown on Gauda Prime. As someone else mentioned, the safest crew was (and I strongly second this opinion) definitely the one captained by Blake, but counterbalanced by Avon. However, if I had to choose one or the other, it would still be Blake. No bullets in the back, please. Brent (who is now so mentally immersed in the world of Blake's 7, he may never return) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:14:03 -0500 (EST) From: brent@ntr.net To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake Message-Id: <199802240014.TAA26868@rome.ntr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Okay, my email system shut down as I was originally sending this message, but I'm pretty sure the first copy didn't get sent. Since I get the list in digest form, I won't know until tomorrow if this was sent the first time. Like Avon, I have little patience. By all means, flame me if this is your second copy. Original message: Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention: Why is it that Blake could no longer tell whom he could trust? Because he no longer had Avon with him. The first two seasons occurred directly AFTER Blake had been reawakened from his programming--the Federation and society had changed a lot since his mental exile. Avon was his voice of reason and when Avon was gone, Blake no longer had the ability to read people and situations the way he could when Avon was there--the scar on his face is evidence of at least one close call--a close call that might not have happened if Avon, in all his cynical wisdom, had been around. If, as evidenced by Avon's actions toward the end of season four, Avon was losing it, then I would argue that Blake, too, was losing it in his own fashion--which was the entire catalyst for the showdown on Gauda Prime. As someone else mentioned, the safest crew was (and I strongly second this opinion) definitely the one captained by Blake, but counterbalanced by Avon. However, if I had to choose one or the other, it would still be Blake. No bullets in the back, please. Brent (who is now so mentally immersed in the world of Blake's 7, he may never return) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:12:26 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" me: >> And I wouldn't either, even if his breath was sweeter than that of my >> beloved, and he wasn't approximately the same age as my father :). >It's >> _Avon_ who gets my hormones going, and PD's not the same person. >Although >> he does bear an uncanny physical resemblance ;). And I'd be very >interested >> in meeting him (and the rest of the cast) if the opportunity arises. Julia Jones: >I'm quite capable of distinguishing actor and character. Paul's some >months older than my father. And the ashtray factor would certainly >inhibit me from wanting to snog him. Nevertheless, I still found myself >collapsing into a wobbly heap of hormones when I first met him at a con >about 18 months ago. Avon's sex appeal is not just the leather and >snarl... I certainly didn't intend to imply that anyone would have trouble separating real life from fiction - I hope I didn't offend anyone, and I do apologise if I did. Oh, for the chance to experience that sex appeal in person! One of the disadvantages of living on this side of the world is that opportunities to meet one's heroes are extremely rare :( >Quite apart from the hormone factor, he's an extremely entertaining con >guest, and well worth going to see. And it's only five weeks until I >get to see him on stage in Guards, Guards, oh joy... You lucky, lucky, lucky... Pratchett and PD, oh my! ttfn, Nicola (a delicate shade of green) --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:03:39 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith wrote: > They are however exactly the words you would use to reassure an old > friend. How is Blake supposed to know that Avon has changed from > the man he knew into a man on the edge of losing it totally? Er... the fact that he can see right down the barrel of a very big gun? In fact, of course, Avon hasn't changed much from the old days - he never trusted Blake's motives much, and he certainly thought that Blake was lead more by his heart and his sense of what was right than pure logic (which Avon saw as his main weakness). If I were Avon, my first thought would be that the Federation had reprogrammed him again. > If Avon had been the man Blake remembered there would have been no > shooting. > > If Blake had been the man Avon remembered there would have been no > shooting either (because the old Blake would have felt no need to > test Tarrant) > Suppose Blake had just answered 'no' when asked if he had betrayed Avon. > Do you think Avon would have belived that in his current state of mind? > I think he'd have pulled the trigger anyway because he'd have assumed > Blake was lying. No - he really did want to believe - he just needed time to think, time to sort things out. Avon realised that what Blake was saying "I set this all up" was probably not what it sounded like, hence the warning to stand still - Avon needed time and some explanations, but he couldn't afford to take the chance that Blake was indeed one of the Bad Guys now. But Blake just plows on in. He misses the signs of a confused Avon, and you don't take chances with heavily armed confused people. I think he was so relieved to see Avon that he just dropped all his defences. All very laudable and trusting, but the big gun really should have warned him. > Avon's biggest unspoken need (as I see him) was for trust. Blake was the > one who ignored Avon's criminal past and literally entrusted his life to > Avon on several occassions. Oh, I agree here. Blake's big mistake was that he assumed that if he trusted Avon, Avon would trust him to anything like the same degree. Again, this comes down to Blake-bashing and Avon-bashing, and why different standards are applied. I still see GP as Blake's fault. Avon took all of Blake's character into account - his weaknesses and his strengths. Blake failed to take Avon's devout paranoia into account. Now this is entirely within Blake's optimistic character, but it doesn't make it any less his "fault". All else aside, when a man with a gun says stop, you stop! Especially if he's meant to be your friend. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:19:48 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <19980223.161541.14407.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> OK, all you ENFP's stand up and be counted! Penny (ENFP...baby kisser at large) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:42:00 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: "B7-list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Message-Id: <199802240043.BAA11516@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > I'm quite capable of distinguishing actor and character. Paul's some > months older than my father. And the ashtray factor would certainly > inhibit me from wanting to snog him. Nevertheless, I still found myself > collapsing into a wobbly heap of hormones when I first met him at a con > about 18 months ago. Avon's sex appeal is not just the leather and > snarl... But boy do I looooove the leather and snarl (retires to lie down for a moment). > > Quite apart from the hormone factor, he's an extremely entertaining con > guest, and well worth going to see. And it's only five weeks until I > get to see him on stage in Guards, Guards, oh joy... Yum Yum, me too! I'm in the stalls on the Tuesday before Deliverance, and I shall be taking a bib (to catch the drool). I like the character he plays too. Vimes practical, but at the same time almost Idealistic. Drunk, of course, some of the time, but totally 100% honest, straight up and down - should test Paul's acting abilities too - hopefully prove them! He won't be able to play Avon, anyway. Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:54:31 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980223182811.00d5c9b0@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michelle Moyer wrote: >Except that in every fandom I've ever been in, the characters I like >best are the characters who are =most= like me. B7's no exception. I find that there's no real correlation between characters I like and those who are similar to me -- I have quite a bit in common with some of my favorites and very little with others. I'm equally fond of Avon and Blake, for instance. I have a good bit in common with Avon, very little with Blake. Characters whom I *dislike*, however, do seem to be pretty consistently very different from me. -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:34:40 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: pussnboots@geocities.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F22943.2BCF@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), ... > This reminds me of a line from the book: "INTJs like to dialogue on the > 7th plane of irreality." Yes, many people find INTJs boring. (That's why > we're droning on on this list) Would you *really* want to listen to Avon > and Orac discussing Particle Physics all nite? > > I'd love to take Vila out for a beer. > Can I join the party? > Pat P I'd LOVE to listen to Avon and ORAC discussing Particle Physics, as long as they were willing to define any terms I'm not familiar with (They are from the future). I bet they would, too, because I'm rarely happier than when I have an interested audience for my own lectures on astronomy, dimensional theory, philosophy... I guess this is why I classified an INTJ, in spite of being an empathic artist. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:41:35 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Nicola Collie CC: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F2335F.3941@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ny thoughts on Avon's preferred type? If this were TheOtherList, I know > what the response would be :D I think Avon would go more on personality than looks. And he seemed to like Dayna smooching him, until he realised she was a little to bloodthirsty for his tastes. But (since I think he was forming an attatchment to Cally) and Anna was a similar build, I guess he goes for the lean type, not a lot of curves. What a disappointment for me and Servalan! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:07:21 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet asked: > Could someone with the relevant search equipment (er, Tom??) confirm > whether the word "Alpha" (as opposed to "superior grade" etc) is used at > all outside Shadow (Vila's conversation with Cally) and Hostage (Joban to > Servalan)? Half a point for refs to other Greek letter grades, like Beta > in Weapon. I don't owe these examples to my amazing memory; I got them > out of Sevencyclopaedia. But my vague impression is that most of the > Alpha stuff has been built up by fans. This is not to deny the existence > of grading in the Federation, just to murmur my weariness at the frequent > projection of the word "Alpha" back into scripts where I've no > recollection of it being in the first place. Certainly. Shadow had one mention (well, two hits): CALLY: What, Blake has led a sheltered life? VILA: Look, he was an Alpha grade on Earth. A highly privileged group, the Alphas. Wouldn't last five minutes among the Delta service grades where I grew up. And it's the service grades where the Terra Nostra really operate. Without anesthetic, usually. ........and Hostage has a mention: SERVALAN: This is a major breach of security. The punishment is total. Who are these people who have been talking? I want their names, Councilor. JOBAN: All sorts of citizens from Alphas to labor grades know of Blake's defiance of the Federation. They talk of him as a sort of...hero, many of them. SERVALAN: What rubbish. JOBAN: His men impede progress, and more importantly order. Order, Servalan. It is all that matters. ....but apart from that, no. However, "Beta" gets four mentions in Weapon, all referring to Coser's status. "Gamma" gets no mentions at all, and "Delta" gets one mention, in the bit above from Shadow. Moderately interestingly, both Weapon and Shadow are by Chris Boucher, while Hostage is by Allan Prior. Now, mentions of the word "grade": Project Avalon (Terry Nation): TRAVIS: No -- an ordinary unskilled labour grade will do -- an expendable. Shadow (CB): as above. Weapon (CB): as above, and Coser speaking about, and to, Rashel: COSER: I should have known better. A labor-grade slave. You're pathetic. Horizon (Allan Prior) (about Vila): AVON: A fifth-grade ignorant, and you would say so, would you? Hostage (AP): as above, and also (probably unrelated, about Exbar): BLAKE: I visited it years ago, spent some time there. It was a penal colony then. Only grade four offenders, allowed visitors, special privileges, that sort of thing. The Keeper (AP): about Jenna: SERVALAN: She is a superior-grade citizen of the Federation. Her IQ is very high. She let you win. Volcano (AP): VILA: My classification might be grade four ignorant but I'm not stupid. I bought that classification... Harvet of Kairos (Ben Steed): about Jarvik: DASTOR: Chiefly it's -- one man; a worker from the construction grades. ...and: JARVIK: I didn't come here to brawl with the Security Grades. ...and, on an official Federation record: "Jarvik. Formerly of Federation Space Academy, now in HQ construction grades." So there you have it - Chris Boucher and Allan Prior between then account for all mentions of grades and the greek numbering system, apart from one from Ben Steed and one from Terry Nation. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:56:45 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat wrote: > Perhaps > Orac is used in that capacity and we're just not shown. I can hear him > sputtering: "You want *me* to send out 1,000 press releases? What do I > look like, a fax machine?" Tariel-spam. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:12:57 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Jay CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Message-ID: <34F23ABA.30EE@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For example, with Avon and Vila, I'd love to be able come > up with the put downs and one liners that they do. But it's hours later > that I think of something witty. Ooh, definitely one thing I have in common-- as quiet as an "I" type like myself can be, when I hear a straight line, I can't resist piping up. I've dropped the jaws of many people who thought they had me pegged until I let loose my bon mots. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:10:32 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Myers-Briggs and Deliverance Message-ID: <199802232210_MC2-3472-E53C@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, I finally gave in and went off to the Keirsey web site, found the test, scrolled down to the first question and then the computer crashed. Does anyone know what that makes me? Judith said: >Do you realise that the weapon rules at Deliverance >will make it the only convention I've ever been to where >I can't walk around with my Liberator gun? Ironic. >According to my reading of the regulations, you can >only carry replica weapons (of any kind) during the >fancy dress competition, and then only with permission. I read the rules as meaning that a Liberator handgun was the only sort allowed - they said something about ones that looked like hairdryers being fine. Unless they mean those are the only ones allowed for fancy dress? Harriet PS If Paul's not coming, why don't they invite Janet Lees Price anyway? She could give us her views on whether Klyn really is a rebel or not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:35:12 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> CC: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers-Briggs and Deliverance Message-ID: <34F23FF0.4959@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, I finally gave in and went off to the Keirsey web site, found the > test, scrolled down to the first question and then the computer crashed. > Does anyone know what that makes me? Vila dealing with ORAC. Turn it into a drink dispenser. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:37:56 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Message-ID: <34F23E8E.2848@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'd love for Avon to love me! It's his single mindedness, that focus > you feel he could bring to, well, sex really (blush). It's also the > whole pygmalion complex - I could make him happier, I could make him > trust himself and me, etc, etc, etc. And that spice of danger - a > recipe for "Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse" but who > cares! I proudly wear the badge of A.S.S. (should the two ss stand > for Sex Slave?) I definitely share the Pygmalion thing, but as more of a "little sister" to him. Passion from him would be... uncomfortable emotionally. He'd push his love away "Do you trust me?" "I'm afraid I do." I like to think I could be the person who could tease him, soothe him, understand him, and he'd be able to relax into it because since he wasn't _passionate_ about me; he didn't feel he was losing control. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:22:08 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Re: [B7] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980223192208.00d28f80@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tramila wrote: >> > We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that >I score 10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe Jenni wrote: >And you said you were scared! I'm believing Pat P from now on ;-) Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:01:58 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Tramila CC: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: [B7] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F245BE.7944@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tramila wrote: > > >Tramila wrote: > >> > > We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that > >I score 10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe > Jenni wrote: > >And you said you were scared! I'm believing Pat P from now on ;-) > > > > Tramila > Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. > Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element Vila and Tramila-- can't trust either of them. On pretends to be drunk to avoid the dirty work, the other pretends to be scared so we all feel sorry for her. ;^) Oh, well, don't go back to lurking. Your posts are so much funnier than the rest of us INTJ's nit-picking. Say, I think you can trust me anround an airlock-- I did score almost as high for idealist as for rational... course, I think _Avon's_ a closet idealist, so maybe you shouldn't trust me. :^D Avona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:40:57 -0600 (CST) From: "G. Robbins" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Meyers-Briggs Testing Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > So I now know that I would be completely incompatible to Avon > because two introverts just don't mix. I think that I sort of wrote that from the standpoint of a person who has spent her life socialized that romantically the same personality of people can't get together; kind of learned the opposites attract type thing; oil and water...I guess I was thinking on more of the sort of "animal lust" type standpoint, where the the two in the relationship start out hating each other because they bounce of each other emotionally. I personally believe that "Wouldn't it be nice to meet some guy like me, who shares my common interests, and is my type of personality?" Maybe my initial standpoint stemmed from my fatalistic view that I probably *won't* meet anybody like that so I might as well just disregard that whole type of situation as impossible. I haven't met anyone like that yet, so why should I think I will later?...or maybe it's just because INFJ's are so special they're only 1% of the population, and that's why I haven't found him yet? --Grace Robbins robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins --Now displaying a rare show of kinship and affection to all B7 fans.... For the Men *SMOOCH* All you Gals *SISTERLY HUG*-- -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #60 *************************************